Ars Goes Ballistic

[Dyyryath]

We are being <b>seriously</b> outproduced right now. <img src=http://www.free-dc.org/images/news/icon17.gif><br><br>We've lost one big folder (<b>beth133</b>) due to a new school year beginning, and for some reason <b>Angus</b> seems to have stop producing, too. Combine that with the fact that Team Stir Fry has added about 90 new active members in the last week, and you can definately see why our lead is rapidly shrinking. So...what can we do about it?<br><br>Those of use who can find more machines to run need to do just that. We could also use some new crunchers in a bad way. We've been picking them up a couple at a time, but never in the kinds of numbers we'll need to fend off TSF after this latest plea for help on Ars Technica's home page. We probably need to come up with some inventive ways to recruit more users.<br><br>Of course, we also need to keep our current production stable. We can't slack off. We've seen time and again that TSF never manages to keep all the users they recruit. That's why they've only got about 25% of their registered team producing, despite all their new members. They've got nearly a thousand members not producing at all. Many of these are from old membership drives where they just couldn't keep the people interested. This one won't likely be any different.<br><br>So, hang in there guys, it's gonna get ugly for awhile, but I'm willing to bet they won't be able to maintain their current output indefinately. We'll just have to continue to slowly increase ours in the meantime. This isn't the end of the fight by a long shot. <img src=http://www.free-dc.org/images/news/icon35.gif><img src=http://www.free-dc.org/images/news/icon35.gif>

[rsbriggs]

Do you suppose that "dressing up" the front page a little might help? I've heard a number of comments about "how boring" the "grey logo on the grey background on the grey page" is.

I've seen some gorgeous FreeDC logos (don't remember where - done in metallic gold....) that just beg to be hung on the front page of the site here.

Not that any of that helps produce more, of course.....

[the-mk]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
I've seen some gorgeous FreeDC logos (don't remember where - done in metallic gold....) that just beg to be hung on the front page of the site here.
Do you mean that one? Just found it :D

http://www.free-dc.org/chat/Freedc_irc800.png

[http://www.free-dc.org/chat/Freedc_irc800.png]

[Dyyryath]

LOL :D

That was a design I did originally for the site. There was actually a whole, graphic page to go with that logo. Once I'd finished it, I decided that I'd probably gone a little overboard with the whole thing. ;)

The site <b>is</b> pretty bland, though. Perhaps we should start a poll. I'd be happy to redesign it into something a little more attractive, if that's what people want...

[Moogie]

I take it that pink is out?

;)

[Dyyryath]

Pieces parts of the original design:

/images/table-1-r1c1.png /images/table-1-r1c3.png

/images/table-2-r1-c1.png

/images/left-recruitment-box.png

[the-mk]

Hey! That looks great! :thumbs:

Why not something like that?

[Dyyryath]

It was pretty bulky, actually. Here's a link to the first draft that still exists on my site:

http://www.zerothelement.com/site-freedc/index.shtml

That was the VERY FIRST DRAFT. It actually got quite a bit better after that, right up until the point I decided it was just too much and we switched to what we have now.

Maybe we need to find a happy medium. Maybe we should consider a new color combination that's not so flat? Maybe we need something entirely different? It's up to you guys...

[rsbriggs]

It's gorgeous, but, as you say, maybe a little too bulky ( and graphics intensive ).

< drawl >Shore is perty though....< /drawl >

[Fozzie]

I don't think just a new web image is going to get us 40-50 new crunchers.

When we register with the forum don't we use email?

Can we not send a group mail to all those who are signed up to urge them back to crunching for FreeDC.

What about having a chat with the inactive producers we have already signed up.

I know I am pretty much on full production already so nothing more I can squeeze out.

[PCZ]

Fozzie

Bad Idea

[Angus]

Without having thousands of people reading our Home page every day, any kind of pimpage isn't going to produce much.

I certainly don't have the answer on where and how to recruit more folks, without using other team's forums - and that's a big no-no.

Personally, I am extremely discouraged with DC right now. When we can have a team of dedicated crunchers who can make an impact on any project, but get ground into dust when the 800 lb gorilla decides they want to be #1 in every project, it takes away any competitive desire I have. I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I participate in DC solely for the stats and the competition. I can't help but think that the Ars dominance has discouraged others as well. It makes me think back to my racing days - it ceased being fun when the winner of every race was a foregone conclusion. The rest of us were merely filling out the grid to make the winner look better. After a year or two of that, it was no longer worth the time and effort, and I didn't have the cubic $$ to compete.

I can't think that my DF contribution will help Free-DC catch Ars, and Free-DC is in no danger from other teams at this time. IF that comes to pass, I'll come back to help defend the #2 spot.

[magicfan241]

The answer to an Ars recruitment drive, is a FDC recruitment drive.

One by us (FDC) might not get 90 new members, but should get at least 10-20.

There is a couple of ways to do this:

1. Since you guys host the DF forums, you could be crafty and add a "Team Recruiting" Section. Then Sticky Team Free-Dc's post to the top, and get a few people, more if Howard would put a linkon the teams page to said forum. This would help Ars some too, but still get you guys a few more members.

2. E-mail siggy. Put a phrase in your e-mail signature that points to the install guide for DF. Include something snappy. Then start working with all of those "you must pass this on to 10 friends" e-mails. :jester:

3. Old-fashioned ads on the advertising for the grocery store. If someone were to wrtie up a page explaining the value of the project, and put little tear-off strips to the website, you might get a few more people that way.

4. ????

I'll go back to brainstorming, but I know that #1 has brought in 9 or 10 members over the last two months for TCC (UD).

This is a little closer to something I can help with.

[Moogie]

Originally posted by Angus

I can't think that my DF contribution will help Free-DC catch Ars, and Free-DC is in no danger from other teams at this time. IF that comes to pass, I'll come back to help defend the #2 spot.

I'm sorry to hear you say that Angus. I certainly hope that is not the prevailing attitude amongst the members here. If we all thought that, what kind of team would we have? We certainly wouldn't have the number one spot now nor would we be able to hold on to number 2.

The stats and the competition are a big part of it for quite a few of us, but I would like to think that it's also the team that puts the cap on it (and I know alot of us do it for the science as well). I'd hate to see us go down the path of giving up without a fight. Sure, we may be #2 for a while, but I'm thinking we may gain some ground on the next changeover if you look at the statistics.

We just need to see what else we can scramble up, and see if we can wake up some of the sleeping giants we have now, at least for the short term. In the mean time, I'm going to keep on battling to stay in the top 20, which will mean I've got to scrounge up some more firepower of my own!

What do you say folks? We just gonna lie down and take it or are we gonna give it our best shot and have a blast in the mean time?



:fight:

[Angus]

It's a realistic view of the problem.

We have no apparent heavy hitters joining, restarting or starting crunching DF.

We would have to merge with at least the #3 team, and probably more to match the current output of Ars, let alone pass them.

Ars is currently outproducing us by at least 15 Million points a day - that's more than the 3rd thru 7th teams COMBINED.


Edit:

OK- I realize that this is a negative opinion - but it's my opinion, and my boxen. dyyryath seemed to be asking why I stopped, so I answered.

I certainly hope those of you who crunch for Free-DC for whatever your reasons are, keep crunching. I don't want to be a wet blanket. If the team thinks this is too much of a public downer, please feel free to delete my posts - it won't hurt my feelings a bit.

[Fozzie]

We will have to see what sort of a gap they pull out before the inevitable mass migration off to other DC's

Basically I think we need to keep at it as we will most likely come back at them at some point.

I'm in it for the overall project as much as the stats and badinage.

Let's just keep it going.

Last idea I had seemed to suck for some reason so I'll let others think about this.

[the-mk]

I'm too small and so are many others here... I can't give enough firepower... :(


one thing we could do: ask Howard for a new buggy client, release it, let the ars-cruncher install it and then Howard could give us a secret bug-free-client :D so a lot of newbe-crunchers at ars are discuraged and leave them. But then comes another front page pimpin and the whole story starts from the beginning
[/BAD-IDEA]

[ANOTHER-BAD-IDEA]
hack their forums or site, announce a gauntlet for another project than folding
[/ANOTHER-BAD-IDEA]

[B]That's sabotage and it's unsportsmanlike, so the bad-idea-tag...


If I were system administrator in our hospital, I could recruite so many gigahertz laying around...
but I'm not :cry: :cry: :cry:

I think I should stop distributing my bad ideas and my dreamings :D

Free-DCers: dont :trash: your computers and continue folding!

[Dyyryath]

Angus: I hate to see anyone stop crunching for any reason, but one the founding tenets of Free-DC is that they're your boxes to do what you'd like with. If you want to stop producing for awhile, then no one here will give you any grief about it! :cool:

Of course, if it's competition you're looking for...you just sit there another day or two without producing anything and I'll be jumping up and down on your bloody carcass. :D :D

Fozzy: Don't get discouraged. Your idea has been talked about in the past. We've all wondered at one time or another if this wouldn't be a good thing to do. Unfortunately, we've had to admit that it's probably a little too close to 'spamming' to be something we want to do. It's not a bad idea, just one that's been discussed before. ;)

Moogie: No, pink is not acceptable. :thumbs:

Everybody: This isn't the end, believe me. You never know how things might turn out as time goes on. Giving up now would be a mistake. If nothing else, we've forced Ars to cry for help repeatedly to even have a shot at getting by us. Besides, I don't believe for a minute that their output will remain this high indefinately. :D

[FoBoT]

the next protein switch is likely to be next tuesday or wednesday

if there are any glitches, some of their "amateur/neewbies" might not fix it/reinstall after the change over. or if the next protein is sloooow, it might dampen the spirits of neewbies , going from high production to lower production

i am not saying anyone hopes for problems, just that the production picture might be altered after the next protein changeover

hang in there dudes

[magicfan241]

@The-MK-- The worst thing about your idea, is that I was planning a low-key gauntlet. Now If someone can do UD stats, I might make it a higher pimped gauntlet.....

(ok, it's sabotage, but hey it's good for two teams, and bad for one. I think that evens everything out)

[Paratima]

What's goin' on? Whas happenin'? :confused:

There I was, happily :sleepy: when my Extreme Angst Detector™ went off all over the place.
Bells, whistles, AND flashing lights! (No dancing girls, tho, durnit.)

Everybody worried about ARS? How come?

We're number 1. They're the Loyal Opposition. We'll fight 'em tooth & nail. They'll win.
(Sorry, but they got the numbers right now. Doesn't mean they won't slip later.)
They'll be #1. We'll be the Loyal Opposition. We'll keep after 'em.

I know I'll still be heavily crunching on DF. So will most of us.
Yeah, it may take the edge off a little, but hey, we were getting pretty edgy anyway!

I want to catch Hydra West napping. Then devzero. (whispers) (maybe even someday (shhhh) Dyyryath. hee hee)

Oh, and BTW, I'd REALLY like to stay ahead of ...what's his name? oh yeah, rsbriggs. :D

That's enuff to keep ME busy. So what's the problem?

[IronBits]

I'm sorry Angus, but what I'm hearing is "If I can't be #1, I ain't gonna try" :cry:
They are your computers, I respect that. If you want to turn them off, or move on to another Team, I also respect that as well.
You do what you want with what you have, that's your perrogative.

This is equated to the stock market, in that we are in it for the long haul...

When Ars does front page pimping, we should be PROUD! I know I am! :smoking:

Sure they are a larger Team, sure, they can bring to bear a lot of pressure, but that's expected of a well seasoned Team.

If the client was more stable so our 'commercial' team members could run it, we would be doing alot better than we are now.
Here's hoping some day the few HEAVY hitters we have will take another look at the client soon and see if they would try it again :cheers:

Currently there is only ONE big gorrilla in the Ars camp on DF, and he ain't squat to at least TWO folks on our Free-DC team. :moon: :D

This new DF client works well under Linux, but has a few more bugs to be worked out of the Windows client before I'd be willing to put it on any commercial pharm.

:cheers: Go Team Free-DC Go :cheers:

We all have alot to be proud of stats wise. Think about it...
We are in the #1 spot, and the worst it can get is #2, with 3rd so far behind, they can't be seen in the rear view mirror. :rotfl:

That's worth keeping the pressure up... sure, they might pull ahead, now that they are focused, because of the front page pimping, but as Dyyryath elluded to, it wanes with time. If we all just give up now, that just lets them get that much further ahead, and harder to catch when they get pre-occupied trying to crush another team on another project. It's taking over 300 of them to try to hold us off, that my friend is a very BIG accomplishment.
:whip: them doggies!!! :D

It's our job to do the best we can with what we have until the likes of Beth133 can return to help take back the lead, or xj10bt, or even Dyyryath and his small commercial pharm, when the client is more stable... :hifi:

Of course, the better solution is to round up more members and give it time. It takes time to build a LARGE team...

We kick butt, we really really do :banana: :thumbs: :D

[Moogie]

The only reason they are outproducing us now is because they pimped on their front page (ie BEGGED FOR HELP).

That should tell y'all something right there.

:)

[Angus]

Sure does. They can add 100 new crunchers just by asking.


My boxen are still crunching, but I switched them to SoB.

At least there is some possibility of movement - trying to hold off DPC, possibility to move up from 11th place team.

I guess I'm just bummed at the inevitablility of our fate in DF. Free-DC will be in 2nd, and stay in 2nd for the forseeable future. No threats, no chance of getting to 1st unless something drastic happens at Ars.

[Chinasaur]

Personally..as I've stated in the past..anyone on that team who isn't a HUGE hitter has no reason to feel smug and superior as they need a 6:1 lead to pass us AND it required two front page pimp jobs. And if any Arsian feels proud that it took 6 times our number to pass us ... well then they are welcome to it ... because that is the hollowest of victories.

I'M not a big hitter on our team but I'M not going to lay down and give up. My contribution matters whatever size it is and I'll be damned if I'll let 321 monkeys ruin my fun. In fact, if they DO pass us I'll give them the finger as they go by and dump industrial waste on their on whatever POS they happen to be riding in at the time. And where I live we've got some SERIOUS WASTE to dump >:)

Let me remind all of you of the Spartans. They are not remembered because they outnumbered the Persian Army 6 to 1. They are remembered because they stood firm....vastly outnumbered against the horde. History remembers and honors those who stand firm for what they believe in and fight back .. even though there be no ultimate hope of victory.


/Cue Charles Dutton Soliliquey from Aliens3 - (with apologies for paraphrasing...)

"You're all gonna die ... the only question is how you check out. Do you want it on your feet? Or on your fscking knees ... begging.

I ain't much for begging ... nobody ever gave me nothin ... so I say fsck that team ...

Let's fight it!!!!" :sniper:

[Moogie]

Originally posted by Angus
Sure does. They can add 100 new crunchers just by asking.



Right. But they had to ask, no beg...alot.

We are where we are at because of a lot of dedicated cruchers. That says alot for FDC.

But, I can understand where you are coming from. You need to do what feels right for you. Have at it. The most important thing here is that you are happy and fulfilled.

Happy crunching no matter what you do!

:)

[PCZ]

My head agrees with what Angus said
ARS have such a large user base that once in that No 1 spot will be impossible to catch. Bail out now and find a project where there are no 800 lb gorillas.

My heart however has other ideas
It says Fight !

If we are going to make a fight of it then we don't want anyone else to walk away because they see the situation as hopeless.

Personally I feel that it is to the detriment of our hobby that one team commands so much power.

[dragongoddess]

Angus its all about the chase dude. There are several Ars projects that took dedication and a lot of time before they reached the #1 position. The most recent is the GIMPS project and they are still in a fight to maintain it.

The Ars team in F@H is facing one heck of a fight and its nearly impossible to think that they will ever rise any further up the ranks then #8 but they still keep at it.

The TPR-SOB team is in the fight of its life. AnandTech will catch TPR-SOB very soon. They have recently added a new member with 26 P4 2.4 systems. He is waiting on premission to add another 36 P4's also. Its going to be one heck of a fight but thats where the fun is.


So
Angus don't give up on DF. Your team needs you. My god man the fun is just starting.
:elephant:


as always your favorite wrinkled ol'granny
dg:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Beyond]

My thoughts on the subject is "bah, they don't scare me, we are going to kick thier tails, they do not have the staying power to hold onto 1st if they achieve it in the first place, if they do capture first place we will hound them to Hell's Gate and back again if that is what it takes" YMMV :D

[dragongoddess]

Thats the Spirit. Get mad, and throw another cruncher into the fight.

[Angus]

Originally posted by PCZ
Personally I feel that it is to the detriment of our hobby that one team commands so much power.

I totally agree. That's what started my whole train of thought that ended in a DF derailment :)

[dragongoddess]

Originally posted by Angus
I totally agree. That's what started my whole train of thought that ended in a DF derailment :)


Now thats a load of BS and you know it Angus.

[Angus]

Well, DG, if you really want to know, the arrogance of Ars as exhibited by their self-appointed role as cheat police for SETI, and your own recent thread about rules that should be applied to DC projects before Ars will deign to participate, played a strong part in my decision.

So please don't dare to assume you know my reasons better than I.

[dragongoddess]

Just a few facts for you Angus

Ars is involved in 16 DC pojects that I know of. In these projects Ars holds various ranks from #31 to #1 . The vast majority will never see a top 5 finish. Also of the 16 projects they are rated #1, in only 5, and I know that 2 of the 5 are very shaky. In fact I expect TPR-SOB to fall to #2 very soon.


But don't use me or Ars as your excuse to leave your teammates at a crucial time.

Also anything worth having is worth fighting for and you have said to everyone that the fight to retain Free-DC's #1 position is not worth fighting for by your quiting the team. And your excuse is "I'm afraid of the Ars boogy man". Get mad, yell at me but whatever you do, don't quit. Don't quit on your friends and teammates. Its not fair to them.
Enough begging.

[ECL]

It will be interesting to see what happens to Ars the next time Howard botches an update. My guess a whole bunch of their new crunchers will vanish. Statistically, we'll probably lose fewer crunchers than they will, which might be some kind of comfort.

There are several reasons this project has a paltry 8.7% participation rate, and only one is the questionable value of the"science". The chaos that accompanies a typical protein change is likely to dissuade less-committed crunchers, and this would, I think, include quite a few of the new Ars people. Once we get them back down to, say, a 4 to 1 numerical advantage, they cease to be much of a threat.

[pizzaking]

Originally posted by Chinasaur
[B]Personally..as I've stated in the past..anyone on that team who isn't a HUGE hitter has no reason to feel smug and superior as they need a 6:1 lead to pass us AND it required two front page pimp jobs. And if any Arsian feels proud that it took 6 times our number to pass us ... well then they are welcome to it ... because that is the hollowest of victories.

There is a reason why we need 6 times the number of members:

Free-DC has 6 out of the top 10 project producers, Ars TSF has 1.

Kinda explains why we need a ration of 6:1 smaller crunchers to make up the difference in large producers. :)

So our army of David's knocked over your Goliaths :p

Or I could be wrong, I quite often am ;)

[dragongoddess]

Rumor has it that TSF is not the real threat to Free-DC but OCAU is.

[FoBoT]

howard indicated the protein change info in a post, not yet in the "News" section of the DF site


We have Labour Day here as well. So it will be Wed., yes. We have no mirror sites still.

so wednesday-friday should be exciting :looney: