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View Full Version : United Devices (THINK) Challange....



gopher_yarrowzoo
09-24-2003, 03:44 PM
Hmm I was discussing the team in a chat room with a few people I know and one is a member of this team http://www.amdzone.com/rc5.cfm and does the THINK project, she was pretty upset that well we at free-dc don't seem to have very many people doing this project.. hmm they have a loads of members and Im not quite sure how many are doing this but well... hmm they are apparently in the top 5 of several projects...

So this isn't a challange unless of course one of us were to post on their boards and ask for a challange... but well hey come on... as several people here @ free-dc say...

BRING IT ON....
oh and I've just added a 2nd IB Fridge and it's full of Carling Black Label, the 1st fridge is full of bud... and it's not like 24 or 48 bottles it's a whole erm 576 bottles in each.. don't ask but well quantum Physics helps..

so do you think we are a):notworthy b):walking: :fight: c):bonk: :beep: ????

rsbriggs
09-24-2003, 04:52 PM
The problem that I suddenly developed with that project is that I found out that the DC volunteers are being exploited. Their volunteered CPU cycles are for sale, and are a "big money" making proposition for IBM.

Very specifically, IBM and United Devices SELL the time being volunteered on "their" grids, and they sure as hell don't pay ME any of that money to cover my electric bill, or wear and tear on my equipment...

Here is a quote from the old article I ran across, which put me off of doing anything for UD....


Our approach seems to be working where we start with a point solution at places like Hewitt, Morgan Stanley and the Royal Bank of Canada for a line of business application, and then watch that solution radiate across the enterprise," Hawk said.

Separately, IBM also announced agreements with Grid middleware providers Avaki, in Burlington, Ma, and United Devices of Austin, Tx. Avaki specializes in solutions for grid-based integration software while United Devices provides secure grid solutions for both corporate and small and medium-size accounts.

Angus
09-24-2003, 05:44 PM
And UD is a quite intrusive client as well. Darn near impossible to get off your PC.

ECL
09-24-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by rsbriggs
The problem that I suddenly developed with that project is that I found out that the DC volunteers are being exploited. Their volunteered CPU cycles are for sale, and are a "big money" making proposition for IBM.


Please cite your source for this claim.

rsbriggs
09-24-2003, 06:28 PM
IBM expects its grid computing push to bring in "multiple millions" of dollars in revenue this year from the sale of hardware, software and services, said Tom Hawk... IBM has also inked partnerships with two smaller grid computing software makers, Avaki in Burlington, Mass., and United Devices in Austin, Texas.
http://news.com.com/2100-7339_3-5081192.html


As a member of the IBM Initiative for Emerging Technology Developers, you gain access to financial incentives through PartnerWorld for Developers such as business discounts, and leasing and financing options.
http://www.developer.ibm.com/marketing/emerging


The key decision that IBM made as a business with the Internet and Linux, and is making now with Grid is to be at the vanguard of making these technologies break through to the commercial world.
http://www-1.ibm.com/linux/grid.shtml


United Devices has partnered with life sciences software company Optive Research to develop software for computer-assisted drug discovery (CADD) specifically optimized for United Devices' Grid computing platform.

The partnership will allow pharmaceutical companies to speed lead identification and lead optimization phases of the drug discovery process and will result in the development of novel cheminformatic and molecular design software that was previously impossible or impractical, the companies claim.

"The most obvious benefit of supporting the United Devices Grid MP platform will be to give our customers the ability to obtain CADD results much faster than by simply using individual high-end servers or clusters," said Bryan Koontz, vice president of marketing at Optive Research.
http://www.gridcomputingplanet.com/news/article.php/2244781


Novartis is using Grid MP™ Enterprise to accelerate lead identification and profiling to increase relevant targets in drug discovery. Screening applications that were previously considered CPU constrained can now be efficiently utilized while controlling technology costs.

Novartis evaluated and piloted other distributed computing vendors -- only Grid MP Enterprise and the United Devices team delivered the performance and expertise in both the technical and scientific arenas that Novartis required.

"The investment [in United Devices' Grid MP Enterprise solution] should save Novartis $2 million or more."
http://www.ud.com/customers/novartis.htm

Take a little closer look at the United Devices customer list. Everything being run on the UD grid is "for pay", including fees they are receiving from the DOD for the Anthrax and Smallpox investigations - this is NOT a public service they are running.

YMMV - I'm not running this on my farm anymore.....

ECL
09-24-2003, 07:45 PM
I suggest you actually read the Novartis case study. Here's a little snippet from their
pdf (http://www.ud.com/resourcecenter/novartis_cs_5_final.pdf). "Novartis has linked 2,700 of its researchers' PCs in a high-performance grid that delivers an extra 5+ teraflops of compute power..." Novartis is running the UD software on their own computers, on their own network.

I believe you are confused about what UD actually does. They have several discrete products, one of which is called "Grid MP Global" and is what the THINK/Anthrax/Smallpox stuff runs on. They also offer "Grid MP Enterprise," which is what Novartis and a bunch of other companies have bought. These companies run this internally, on their own networks, on their own computers. The other product is "Grid MP On Demand" which is similar to the Enterprise thing but hosted on a UD server farm. It's not hooked up to the "MP Global" grid.

The word "Grid" is getting thrown around a lot lately, and the UD Grid products are not the only ones out there. "Grid" doesn't necessarily mean UD, and UD does not necessarily mean the "MP Global" grid.

I've read everything you cited, and found nothing which even implied that IBM, UD or anyone else is secretly selling cycles on the "MP Global" grid. In several cases the articles explicitly stated that the customers were using the "Grid MP Enterprise" product. There is no evidence whatsoever to support your implication that UD, IBM and others are conspiring to defraud volunteers. The sponsors of the "MP Global" projects are listed explicitly on the UD site. Yes, they pay UD for the use of the system. No, you don't get paid. That's made clear from the get-go.

It is your right to choose not to run the UD "MP Global" client, but please don't spread unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. This kind of urban legend harms the entire DC community because it eventually spreads widely enough that people believe it, not because there are compelling facts behind it, but simply because so many other people are saying it.

We can beat up on a lot of DC projects for a huge array of legitimate reasons. When a project has legitimate failings we can and should air them and try to get them corrected. We don't need to concoct sinister conspiracies, particularly when they're based on erroneous data.

Paratima
09-24-2003, 08:19 PM
This here 2 cents is burning a hole in my pocket...

I have run this project, and still do from time to time, with my older, slower boxen. Runs fine. I have found it to be NOT intrusive. Just sits there quietly doing its thing. Extremely stable. Also, you have full choice over what gets run, or at least all the evidence I have points that way. Only minus points are: no Linux version and really ugly tray icon (kinda like a blue wart).

Angus, I've removed & reinstalled it several times. Start, Settings, Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs, ... :D

rsbriggs
09-24-2003, 08:24 PM
Like I said - your mileage may vary. I'm not running the client, for no other reason than I no longer care to do so. Everyone else is welcome to do their own research and form their own opinions.

wirthi
09-25-2003, 10:05 AM
I currently run Find-a-drug; it's from the original developers of the THINK core UD is (or was?) using.

So, should see better scientific results here with no troubles about money making companies or so.

gopher_yarrowzoo
09-26-2003, 10:00 AM
So I take that as a no then... oh well no problem... I think we need to have a gauntlet on something .... :rotfl:

rus6
09-27-2003, 05:18 PM
I'm still keeping my UD box crunching, i'll see if I can dig up some more....

Supp
09-27-2003, 06:50 PM
and btw UD're "the goodfellas" who sued BOINC developers and forced BOINC to close source.

Big (-) for me.:swear:

Paratima
09-27-2003, 08:17 PM
Well I didn't hear about that. All I know is, it's trouble-free to run.

With your objections & rsbriggs', maybe I'll think (sorry) about it before putting any boxen back on it.

IronBits
09-27-2003, 09:06 PM
Also, I thought it was Intel biased with the points/statistics for that project.
Or do I have my projects confused again? (the blue pill) :confused:

Paratima
09-27-2003, 09:31 PM
Dunno. :dunno: Never paid any attention. But that's OK. The Find-A-Drug proggie is doing essentially the same work and is basically the same super-stable engine. Easy enuff to switch over. I've run both.

WTF, take the pill anyway! :jester:

Supp
09-28-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Paratima
Dunno. :dunno: Never paid any attention. But that's OK. The Find-A-Drug proggie is doing essentially the same work and is basically the same super-stable engine. Easy enuff to switch over. I've run both.

WTF, take the pill anyway! :jester:
:slap: not true anymore...blue pill corp. now uses "Autodock"-like program - same as D2OL and Entropia...:looney:

Paratima
09-28-2003, 07:53 AM
Ummmm, OK, Supp. What do YOU recommend? Just stick with DF? :smoking:

wirthi
09-28-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Supp
:slap: not true anymore...blue pill corp. now uses "Autodock"-like program - same as D2OL and Entropia...:looney:
Are you sure about that? Everywhere in the client and on the homepage I can read "THINK" - that is the program that was originally used in the UD client (and was coded by the same people now hosting it independently as "find-a-drug").

Or do you mean UD is now using another type of core .. that might be true of course ...

IronBits
09-28-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Paratima
Ummmm, OK, Supp. What do YOU recommend? Just stick with DF? :smoking: Stick with DF! We lost rsbriggs' pharm and need all we can get, at least until after protein change over to see what happens then... ;)

Supp
09-30-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by wirthi
Are you sure about that? Everywhere in the client and on the homepage I can read "THINK" - that is the program that was originally used in the UD client (and was coded by the same people now hosting it independently as "find-a-drug").

Or do you mean UD is now using another type of core .. that might be true of course ...

UD stopped using THINK engine quite some time ago...about time FaD was founded,
now they're using LigandFit (explanation here (http://www.grid.org/projects/cancer/ligandfit.htm) on grid.org (UD) site).

Because of that, FaD was founded.


IB: Stick with DF 'till we get Ars of our ... :crazy: and then, :cheers:

rsbriggs
09-30-2003, 09:10 AM
I'm baaaaaaaaack.....
5 Ghz down, but still red :) Pulled everything off everything except DF....

IronBits
09-30-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Supp
IB: Stick with DF 'till we get Ars of our ... :crazy: and then, :cheers: I am :D

Death
11-19-2003, 07:37 AM
yeah, if you want to doing workunits that already was calculated 10 times - you can join the grid.org, so they can sell their technology.