Workplace for Stats Developers

[Dyyryath]

I've recently spent some time discussing the possibility of a 'unified' stats system for Free-DC with some of the other stats guys we have on our team. Since then, I've played with a couple of ideas and it's occurred to me that if we really want to leverage the abilities we have here at Free-DC, we need a place for our stats guys to work on their ideas as a group (rather than by email).<br><br>With that in mind, I've added a new area under the 'Administrative' section of our forums specifically for use as a stats development workspace. For the time being this area is only visible to stats developers. That may change in the future, but for now, if you'd like to be involved and feel like you have something to offer (other than as a tester or user), then just <a href="mailto: dyyryath@zerothelement.com">shoot me an email</a> and I'll hook you right up.<br><br>Currently, the following users should be able to both view and post to the new area: Bok, Darkness Productions and magnav0x (as well as any admins). If any of you can't see it, or can't post, let me know right away so I can get that fixed.<br><br>So, what does this mean for our non-developer members? Hopefully, it'll mean the beginning of a stats system somewhat like my <a href="http://stats.zerothelement.com">Arachnid Stats</a> but covering a larger number of projects and drawing on the talents of all of our stats developers rather than just one. <img src=http://www.free-dc.org/images/news/icon14.gif>

[magnav0x]

*clears his throat and raises his hand*

Erm I can't see it :trash:

[Bok]

me neither.. just sent a PM..

Bok

[Dyyryath]

Hmmm...well, that's not we're after. Let's try this again. How about now?

[Bok]

Yes, that looks ok now. Let me try a test post to make sure...

Bok

[PY 222]

Wow.. you guys must be talking a whole lot in that "Secret" Forum!

The frontpage "Forum Threads" box is showing the topics in the "Secret" Forum and I just wanted to let you all know.

I can't wait to see a combined stats page!

[PCZ]

Its a shame that there are any 'secret' forums at Free-DC.

[the-mk]

Could someone ban that secret posts/threads from the front pages "Forum Threads"-section?

Or make them readable but forbid posting by unaccepted users...

Do what ever you want, but it makes me :fireboun: that they're only visible for the permitted users :swear:

[prokaryote]

are you looking for coders only or are you looking for statistical ideas as well?

prok

[Dyyryath]

Actually, there's nothing *secret* going on per se, but rather I wasn't sure everyone involved would want to post code that they were working on for the world at large to peruse. I'm a little leary of that myself. ;)

Having said that, let me reiterate that anyone here that wants into our TOP SECRET LEVEL J19 ULTRA CLASSIFIED AREA need only drop me a line. :D

I suspect that when we have something for non-developers to start playing with, we'll be happy to start threads in the Lobby (most likely) where everyone can have their say. In the end, any work that gets done in there is for the benefit of all Free-DC users, so we'd obviously like to get feedback and ensure that our non-developer friends like what they see. :cool:

The deal with the front page reflecting the threads in the new forum is simply an oversite on my part. Sorry about that, I'll get it fixed right away. :blush:

So...just to make sure that we're all clear on this: nothing sinister is going on 'behind closed doors', it's just that some code may get posted in there that we may not want to share with the general public. As always, we welcome any questions or comments on this! :thumbs:

[Dyyryath]

Originally posted by prokaryote
are you looking for coders only or are you looking for statistical ideas as well?

prok

Any and all ideas are welcome. I know you've emailed me with some fairly complex ideas in the past. I've no doubt that you'll be able to offer some helpful stuff.

*PRESTO* prokaryote is now cleared for TOP SECRET LEVEL J19 ULTRA CLASSIFIED material.

See how easy that was? :D

[magicfan241]

Well, I can give advice, knowledge and a little bit of saved code that I got a while back (that still work if I do things right) for Grid.org

So, if you need help in that area, I'll give all I can.


magicfan241

[willy1]

Originally posted by PCZ
Its a shame that there are any 'secret' forums at Free-DC.

I'm not real wild about 'closed' forums as well. Tends to develop cliques.

This seems like a great learning oportunity that will occur behind closed doors.

Those of us who may be real-world software geeks of a slightly different persuasion would perhaps like to see the development process evolve, and the techniques, languages and tools used. I also can't see what could be so secret about code that's used to collect and display stats.

Just my humble opinion.


willy1

[Dyyryath]

Cliques? I don't think that will be a problem. Believe it or not, we heard that same argument when the original five founders came here to start Free-DC:

"It's just going to be a place where those guys can be in charge and decide who does what."

I think I can say that we've successfully avoided that. I know it's just not a part of my nature and none of the other founders have show such inclinations either. I don't expect this to be any different.

Now, having said all that, let me also say that I'm willing to listen to the masses. If the majority here think that we should open it up to the public, then I'll do so. I will admit, however, that I'll be a little more reticent about posting and sharing code that way. Don't get me wrong, I write quite a bit of open source software. Sometimes, however, I write things that I don't want to give away to anyone who happens by our forums; especially to other teams.

I think we have a good track record of helping anybody and everybody when we can. I think I personally have a pretty good track record giving back to the community as well. One of the things that makes distributed computing fun, however, is the competition. The more people it can attract, the better a team will do, and great stats can be a good way to attract new users.

I'd like to see Free-DC become a stand out for great stats. I'll always be willing to provide stats for other teams and individuals, but I'm not necessarily willing to give away our code as well; or at least not all of it. I have a sort of half-formed idea of building something really advanced for Free-DC (that also provides stats for others), and then releasing a 'lite' version of the codebase for the distributed computing community at large to make use of in any way they see fit.

However, Free-DC is all about empowering the members to help make decisions, so I'll be happy to listen to what anyone and everyone has to say. If the other developers involved don't have any qualms about giving away what they've written, and the majority of people here don't mind either, then I'll probably either go with the flow, or just contribute things that I'm willing to share with everyone. ;)

[Supp]

You know, people, he's got a point...important one - if we open that "coding forum" to public, our stats gurus *may* keep best code outta there - that *could* slow down development, 'cause more eyes (brains) hunt more bugs...

my $0.02 only.

[willy1]

I guess my point would be -

If we (I) can't see what going on, how can we (I) even know if we (I) can help?

If Dyyryath is going to do the major grunt work on the master engine, and just needs help in data collection like parsing xml or some such thing, or some other area, it would be nice to know what help is needed.

I guess I'm looking for a way to contribute something besides lots of cycles - but not being one of the 'stats developers' I'm not sure what that would be.

[Dyyryath]

I see where you're coming from willy1. Even people who may not be able to help write the code itself can still be quite valuable to the 'development process' just by making astute observations and asking questions that make those of us who are coding see things in new ways. I can also see the benefit of having the end users (our Free-DC members) involved with the more general 'what should it do & how' kinds of discussions as we go along.

I'm not quite sure how to reconcile that with any desire to keep the actual code at least somewhat private...

This seems like a topic worth discussing, though. Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. Does anyone have a better suggestion? Perhaps an open forum for the discussion of theory and design with links to a non-anonymous (developers only) FTP server for the storage of code? Maybe a non-anonymous CVS server? Something else? Bueller?

[Cmarc]

hmm this seems pretty interesting. I'd like to see if I can contribute as a fellow stats (apprentice) guru. On the other hand I am not a member of FDC so I'll understand if you prefer to keep this strictly for FDC members.
Just adding my little bit to the general confusion ;)
Marc

[pfb]

Originally posted by Cmarc
hmm this seems pretty interesting. I'd like to see if I can contribute as a fellow stats (apprentice) guru. On the other hand I am not a member of FDC so I'll understand if you prefer to keep this strictly for FDC members.
Just adding my little bit to the general confusion ;)
Marc

Same here - just starting to sort out a DF stats site for my team (only consists of the main details (http://wibble.bounceme.net/Sneakers/TeamStats.php) and a 'Mini-team' breakdown (http://wibble.bounceme.net/Sneakers/MiniTeamStats.php) (based on the organisation field)...be interested to help out with either coding (MySQL/PHP) or development ideas :)

[Dyyryath]

Well, after some thought, I think I'm going to open up the discussion area for everyone to particpate in. magnav0x has setup a tool for us to post code snippets in as well, which seems pretty slick and will allow us some control over who gets access to the code if it becomes an issue.

So, come one, come all. The more the merrier. :cool:

[Scotttheking]

Hey Dyy, long time no talk.

Good idea here. In some ways I wouldn't mind seeing a combined shared stats setup of some kind. Good luck.