Win98 Stealthing?

[Scotttheking]

Is there anyway to setup DF so that it runs at bootup totally unseen to the user?
I'd like to move my Tbird farm over, but it has to be completely out of the way for me to do that.

OS is win98

Thx,

Scott

[MAD-ness]

There is not a way to do this in the client, but it can be done.

I have been messing around with batch files and third party programs for the last couple of weeks (and looking into this idea for the last couple of months) and I have come up with a workeable and reproducable method for making the Win9x CLI client act in approximately the same fashion as the NT service.

It is a bit of a hack, but it is not horribly complicated and it seems to work through shut-downs, crashes, etc. in a pretty regular fashion during my limited testing.

I plan to write something up to post on the Ars Technica Team Stir Fry page at http://tsf.dbestern.net/ but have yet to get the time required to do so. I will link to it here when I get around to getting it written up and posted.

In the meantime, here are some links to the programs that I have tested and used to make the Windows9x CLI client run "hidden" (no systray icon, no open window):

HideIt X v3.0 - a very powerful utility written by LPerry (The Weatherman, of F@H Electron Microscope fame) and usable for many DC projects.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=388356

RunH.exe - a small script written to hide any .bat or .exe file. I can't get a link to the actual page for RunH.exe but take this main link, choose "utilities" from the menu and then choose "RunH.exe"

http://www.scripthorizon.com/

I hope those help.

BTW, I used a shortcut in the system Startup folder to make it "auto-run," though you can probably add a command to the autoexec.bat file. The way that I dealt with improper closure of the client was to simply delete the foldtrajlite.lock file, if it exists, before launching the client. I do not know what kind of data this might lose, but it gets the client up and crunching again, so the data loss is less than if the client simply doesn't restart at all. If you have a better idea for this stuff, please share!

[MAD-ness]

I have just posted some information about my experiences attempting to "hide" the Distributed Folding CLI client over at the Ars DC forum in the [TSF] Wok Fu (aka the perpetual Distributed Folding Thread)" thread. Here is the URL:

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=122097561&m=9270985704&r=6000953854#6000953854

I have not edited this or had anyone test it or offer any criticism (constructive or otherwise) so please be gentle. My DOS knowledge and experience can fit inside of a very tiny thimble, I had to do a lot of digging around to find the programs and then use a lot of trial and error to get things working and had to beg for help in regards to DOS syntax at a few places along the way.

While my "guide" might be difficult to follow (and is utterly lacking in elegance) I HAVE gotten the Distributed Folding CLI client to run in Win9x in the following configurations:

Auto-start (even after improper shutdown), run hidden (using Runh.exe), run hidden (using HideIt X v3.0), running with modified executable name (i.e. changing 'foldtrajlite.exe' to 'Idle.exe') and a few other rather useless configurations.

Most importantly, I have gotten gotten it to auto-start(even after improper shutdown), run hidden and run with a renamed executable all at the same time.

None of this is rocket science and for the gurus out there it shouldn't be difficult at all, but I did put up sample code and various options and the best explanations I could.

Hopefully this will help those who need it. I know if I had found information like this when I started running Distributed Folding I could have saved myself a lot of time. ;)

[Brian the Fist]

Perhaps someone would be interested in tidying it up a bit then and we could add it to the official FAQ (or somewhere else on the site) so everyone could benefit from it? Just a thought. Just e-mail me HTML and I can put it on the web site if it is relatively clear for people to follow.

[MAD-ness]

Hrm.

I was mostly winging it. My hope was that I get clean it up enough to put it up on the TSF site in our FAQs. The current version is not edited and the formatting got owned when I posted it.

I will try and get it cleaned up and have people who actually know what they are doing take a look at it in order to edit it. If someone reads about it here they can go 'steal' the information and write up a professional FAQ and send it over to you.

/me mutters about posting before he had it cleaned up, figures no one responds in this thread for days until now. ;)

[jkeating]

Great work MAD-ness !!

Just one comment - the latest version of HideIt X is 3.1... I have not tried it yet, but the write-up (http://home.attbi.com/~wxdude1/emsite/hideitx.html) says that the program will no longer automatically hides the program... which means if someone downloaded the latest version, it may not work as outlined in your procedure...

BTW, if no one else volunteers, I would be willing to write up some HTML and include some screen shots... I'm going back to work on Thursday, so I could find some free time... :D

I had been waiting for something like this myself... again, good job :thumbs: ... on Sunday evening I'll try to switch a couple of machines at work (yes, I have permission :D ) from F@H to DF

[MAD-ness]

I will try to organize, simplify, and clarify the instructions but I don't know how soon I can get it done.

I didn't know about LPerry's new version, I will have to check that and I need to send him an email asking him permission or atleast letting him know.

Runh.exe can be used instead, it is a very basic 'script' and for Distributed Folding, the extra features of HideIt X aren't really needed, from what I can tell.

Jkeating: if you want to put it in HTML, improve it, etc. feel free to do so and fire it off to Howard.

Far too many people helped me (read: walked me through it in baby steps) for me to claim it is any sort of brilliant innovation or groundbreaking research. ;) As long as other people don't have to go digging around looking for this type of info, like I did, it was worth the effort.

The easier we make it to install, configure and run the Distributed Folding client, the easier it will be for us (both DC teams and the Distributed Folding project itself) to recruit more computers and more volunteers.

[pointwood]

Okay, I've added a version 0.1 to http://tsf.dbestern.net/faq.php

Comments, suggestions, etc. are more than welcome.

EDIT: You need to scroll down a little to see it :)

[jkeating]

With all due respect to MAD-ness for all the hard work he did to get DF to start properly and run hidden on Win98, it was way too difficult for the KWSN. You see, first there is the Knightly Scrolls... but I digress.

We have come up with a little proggy (appropriately named HideDF.exe) that when started will look for the foldtrajlite.lock file and delete it if it exists, then it launchs the foldit.bat file hidden.

Download the proggy and put it in the same directory as the rest of the DF files. Then just start HideDF either by double clicking, or create a shortcut in the Windows startup folder.


You can find it here (http://www.katrinashome.com/howtohideit.html)

Try it out and post any comments to this board.

[MAD-ness]

I emailed the KWSN guy who did hidden and service modifications for other projects about doing similar stuff for DF about two months ago, never heard back.

I will check that program out. There is no reason that someone couldn't code up some things to make running the DF cli client a lot easier/more reliable/etc. I just lack the skill, so I have been mucking about trying to improvise.

And now I have to spend all night making the guide make sense, so as to replace the one pointwood has up, cause I don't like it. hehe. Off I go.

[jkeating]

I emailed the KWSN guy who did hidden and service modifications for other projects about doing similar stuff for DF about two months ago, never heard back.

hmmmmm... don't know who that is... could be that he isn't with KWSN any more??

I'm not a VB programmer either - structural engineer by trade. However, I have done a fair amount of FORTRAN programming. This little proggy was something that I coordinated... had some code laying around to hide the CLI then got some VB help to look for and delete the lock file if it existed... so as much as I would like to take the credit for it, I can not.

:D :D

[TheWeatherMan]

I have just added a -delete command to HideItX.
This will allow you to delete a file as one of the commands you ask HideItX to perform.

See it here:

http://www.em-dc.com/hideitx.html

[MAD-ness]

Sweet Larry.

I will have to check it out. Deleting the foldtrajlite file isn't hard, but doing it all in one fell swoop will be nice.

[TheWeatherMan]

Guys, feel free to ask for features you would like to see in any program I have on the EM-DC web site. I'll see what I can do. There are times when I can't do something, or won't do something, but most of the time people ask for reasonable stuff and I get it added. Just something to keep in mind. :D


Originally posted by MAD-ness
Sweet Larry.
I will have to check it out. Deleting the foldtrajlite file isn't hard, but doing it all in one fell swoop will be nice.

[MAD-ness]

Jkeating: how do you circumvent the "Foldtrajlite is running, close this program and exit windows, or close this window and keep foldtrajlite and windows running" window?

Not sure how I didn't notice this before. I get this error message when trying to shutdown this win98se machine while foldtrajlite is running, regardless of how I launch it.

I know with shortcuts you can modify the options in "properties" to deal with issues like this, I will fiddle with that and see what I can do.

[RipItUp]

Originally posted by TheWeatherMan
Guys, feel free to ask for features you would like to see in any program I have on the EM-DC web site. I'll see what I can do. There are times when I can't do something, or won't do something, but most of the time people ask for reasonable stuff and I get it added. Just something to keep in mind. :D



thanx Larry :)

Regards

Andy

[jkeating]

Jkeating: how do you circumvent the "Foldtrajlite is running, close this program and exit windows, or close this window and keep foldtrajlite and windows running" window?

Check out this thread (http://www.free-dc.org/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=871&pagenumber=2)

Disclaimer: DF does not do any checkpointing. Therefore, in my experience, whenever the client is improperly shutdown - i.e. a reboot with a hidden client - you will lose any structures not already sent to the server. If you have an always on Internet connection, then the most structures lost would be 4,999. I have not deployed DF to the 40 +/- machines I have available for this very reason - all are Win98 that get rebooted and/or the electricity flickers (happens way too often and we haven't invested in UPSs) so I leave them on a different DC project. :(

[Brian the Fist]

Actually, that's incorrect. The software 'checkpoints' every 5000 structures or whatever, as of about 3 months ago. If it does not, this is a bug and needs to be reported to us.. The most you should ever lose to a power failure/improper shutdownb is 4999 structures per machine.

[jkeating]

The software 'checkpoints' every 5000 structures or whatever, as of about 3 months ago.... The most you should ever lose to a power failure/improper shutdownb is 4999 structures per machine.

I stand corrected... :o , but I did say that the most you would lose is 4,999 structures.

I have not done any benchmarks yet, but we have quite a few machines in the 400 - 500 MHz range. Last Friday I got 2 boxen that weren't being used and set them up to run DF. Unfortunately, the power flickered sometime over the weekend and they shut down. My fear is that for these boxen, it will take 4-5 hours, or longer if they are used quite a bit, to do 5000 structures and if they are shut down for any reason, that work is lost - that could add up to a lot of wasted hours.