thread for helping jasong with his new computer

[jasong]

Guys, we've hit a snag. The case my dad was planning on installing everything in is too small for the motherboard. He's encouraging me to get online and try to find a case to buy.

My transportation is from my parents for reasons involving mental health and what resembles a siezure disorder, so I may not be able to go to a store(WalMart) until Thursday with my therapy group, which is a scheduled event.

Bottom line: I have the following:

a motherboard
a cpu
2 sticks of 128MB RAM
a fan
a cable modem(claims my dad)
a video card
a DVD ROM

By Wednesday night, I hope to have a plan which involves:

less than $50 of purchasing
grounding
enough knowledge to intelligently buy a psu(power supply unit)
a case or the necessary equivalent
and most importantly, the advice and support of my fellow crunchers.

In one word: :help:

[Bok]

I don't know too much about cases as I really don't use them on many machines..

but this seems a good deal

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811145047

$46 including shipping for the case with a 400W PSU

Bok

[Fozzie]

case choice, all my experience is in the UK.

Once you hav ethe case building it is pretty straght forward.

Have you built a PC before?

[rsbriggs]

That Powermax is about the best case for the price around.

I don't use them because I don't care for all the glitz, but so far as I know, you can't really beat that price for a case with 400 watt P/S - including shipping....

[TeeJay]

Originally posted by jasong
Guys, we've hit a snag. The case my dad was planning on installing everything in is too small for the motherboard. He's encouraging me to get online and try to find a case to buy.

My transportation is from my parents for reasons involving mental health and what resembles a siezure disorder, so I may not be able to go to a store(WalMart) until Thursday with my therapy group, which is a scheduled event.

Bottom line: I have the following:

a motherboard
a cpu
2 sticks of 128MB RAM
a fan
a cable modem(claims my dad)
a video card
a DVD ROM

By Wednesday night, I hope to have a plan which involves:

less than $50 of purchasing
grounding
enough knowledge to intelligently buy a psu(power supply unit)
a case or the necessary equivalent
and most importantly, the advice and support of my fellow crunchers.

In one word: :help:

Thermal grease ?
Hard drive/ cables ?
kb,mouse and monitor for setup
installable OS

G'luck !

>>TeeJay

[jasong]

Originally posted by TeeJay
Thermal grease ?
This I definitely need to mention to my dad, I think the rest is covered.

In the case of the OS, I'm not sure what to do next. I'm downloading Fedora Core 3, but burning the ISO could be a problem since I don't think my dad would be too keen on installing a new program on his computer.

I've got a version of Fedora Core 1 from a Linux for Dummies book, but since I don't have a dvd drive on my computer I haven't had a chance to review it. Plus, I probably need to upgrade somehow to FC3.

I'm going to head over to NewEgg and send an email asking them to help me pick a case.

[jasong]

I am so frickin annoyed.

All I want is a page that tells me what the heck the different terms for cases mean. I'm not going to even TRY to pick a brand until I know it's appropriate for my computer(there's no point in buying a top-of-the-line case for 2-3 year old computer parts).

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

[Bok]

That is the correct one jason, there is only really ATX and micro ATX for your purposes, this one is an ATX like the board.

Bok

[jasong]

Originally posted by Bok
That is the correct one jason, there is only really ATX and micro ATX for your purposes, this one is an ATX like the board.

Bok
Since my board is obviously not micro-ATX, does that necessarily mean ATX?

And what is ITX?

Update: My dad is taking the motherboard to a friend of his to figure out what to do next. He is still finding it hard to believe I got a working computer for free.

[Bok]

Yes, it's ATX.

Bok

[jasong]

My dad's dragging his feet about the case, he wants me to wait THREE WEEKS(!!!) until his friend gets back from Hawaii. Obviously, I need to take things into my own hands.

I don't have a lot of money, but I figure if the case is my only major purchase for the next month or so(unless I get a job), I should be perfectly fine.

I'll leave it to you guys. I have about $100 I'm willing to spend although I'd like to keep it to a very low amount if possible. Remember, this is solely for crunching, I don't need anything fancy.


http://www.newegg.com and it has to be able to fit an ATX board, specifically an ATX board.

The cheapest one is about $40 including S&H, but I'm not sure how easy the case is to "deal with," although it got good reviews.

Help me out guys, click the above link and give me your opinions.

[rsbriggs]

Bok and I already recommended a specific case. I'm curious - what is the problem with the recommendation that has already been made?

[jasong]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
Bok and I already recommended a specific case. I'm curious - what is the problem with the recommendation that has already been made?
Sorry about that, I didn't review the other posts before writing that. I'm guessing I've slept once or twice since that was written.

I'll check it out and add an edit to this.

Edit: bought

[rsbriggs]

Now, as far as thermal compound goes, if you got a retail box, with processor, heat sink, and fan, then you probably don't need any - Usually the heat sinks already have a patch of thermal compound on them.

You shouldn't need cables, since the motherboard box should have a pair of IDE cables in it (also assuming that it was a retail box. )

Dunno about the fan you mention - depends on the size, but the case usually has a place or two available to install extra fans if you need them.

Assembly is pretty easy, really, usually the hardest part for me is getting the darn heat-sink fan clipped on properly....

Here's the short version of assembly 101. You may want to wait until you have the case first.

Unlatch the processor socket.

Carefully place the processor in the socket and latch it. Note that there are some missing pins in one or more corners of the CPU and the socket. These need to match up.

Place the HSF on the processor and latch it in place.

Place the ram in the appropriate sockets - some boards want ram to be loaded in a specific order in the slots. Open the clips on the end, match up the slot on the ram and press down. The clips will snap into position and lock in the ram.

That's all that can be done before the case arrives. Look at the MOBO manual and notice where the front panel connector is. There will be a batch of wires coming out of the case that will have to be attached to that connector.

[jasong]

Obvious question, no obvious answer apparent.

How long does the "Express Saver" shipping take once it's in the mail? I'm guessing I'm going to receive it sometime around the beginning of June, but I don't really know.

[Bok]

From Newegg, express saver is (90% of the time) 2nd business day...as long as you ordered before 2pm PST.

Bok

[jasong]

Originally posted by Bok
From Newegg, express saver is (90% of the time) 2nd business day...as long as you ordered before 2pm PST.

Bok
My mother thinks it'll be here on Tuesday(31st).

We'll see. :cheers: :D

[rsbriggs]

Well, let's see. Since you've never built a computer before, there are some things that those of us that build lots-of-them probably take for granted, but a novice needs to know.

First thing to do once you receive the case is to unpack and open it - there are usually a few parts packed on the inside, like a power cord and bag of miscellaneous hardware. There will also be a bunch of colored wires coming out of the front of the case - these don't come out.... They will be attached to the front panel connector later on in the assembly process...

Some cases have two thumb screws holding the side panel on the "main" side of the case, some have regular phillips screws. Remove what is necessary to remove and slide the side panel towards the back of the computer, then lift it off - there are generally a set of slots on the top of the case that match up with some formed sheet metal tabs that come out of the side panel. On the bottom, there is generally a formed lip on the side panel designed to hold onto the rim of the case at the bottom. (You'll see what I mean when you open it.)

Keep track of the screws that you took out of the side panel to open the case - I'm always managing to lose them somewhere...

Inside the little bag of hardware will be some brass spacers. These are the first parts you'll need to work with. Fish them out of the bag of hardware, and then find some screws that match the female threaded part of the spacer - they are generally flat headed screws with fairly large heads. Oh, and there may be some paper washers, too. Fish them out as well.

The motherboard plate in the bottom of the case will have a set of holes that the brass spacers screw into - these spacers support and hold the motherboard up and off the bottom of the case so things don't short out. You can lay the motherboard in the bottom of the case to see which of the holes in the bottom of the case need to have the spacers screwed into them.

As I recall, there are about 7 or 8 of these - there will be at least two on each edge of the motherboard. Remove the motherboard, screw the brass spacers into the appropriate holes. Make sure you don't have a brass spacer screwed in anywhere that doesn't have a matching hole on the motherboard, or you'll have cause a short when you power up later on....

Set the motherboard down in the case on the spacers. make sure there is a spacer for each hole in the motherboard.

There will be a small metal plate with holes cut out of it matching the connectors on the motherboard that comes with the motherboard. This replaces the one that comes with the case, unless the one that comes with the case is an exact fit, which it usually isn't. Remove the plate that comes with the case. It may just be snapped into the opening, or you may have to remove a screw or two holding it it.

Making sure you have the alignment correct, snap the new backplate into the opening in the case. These are usually pretty flimsy - be careful to only press around the edges or you'll bend it in the middle. Place the motherboard in the case again. The motherboard connectors should now fit into their appropriate holes in the backplate when the motherboard is placed in the case and the mounting holes are aligned with the spacers.

At this point you are ready to fasten the motherboard down to the case, but I usually install all the other stuff (processor, HSF, RAM) on the motherboard first. (Actually, I usually have all that stuff installed and a hard drive and CD drive attached, then power up and test the mother board before I ever put it in the case. Sometimes it just sits on my workbench and runs without a case for several weeks before I get around to putting it in a case. Depends on what I have going on and if I need the workbench space or not.)

...

More when you are ready....

[jasong]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
Well, let's see. Since you've never built a computer before, there are some things that those of us that build lots-of-them probably take for granted, but a novice needs to know.
While my dad will be there to help, I plan on building the actual computer. My dad doesn't talk about it much, but back in the 80s, he was so good at electronics the military used him to help intercept transmissions from Russia.

Off-topic: I wasn't aware of it until my dad was stationed in Shemya, Alaska, but at it's closest point, the United States is only about a quarter-mile from what used to be the Soviet Union.

[jasong]

Okay, it is now Tuesday at 6:40pm. It has been 98.5 hours since the location of my package was last updated and my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is preparing itself to kick it up a notch.

This waiting is driving me nuts. :bang: I was POSITIVE that I was going to receive it TODAY. Yet they haven't even UPDATED the location?:geezer: :rant:

:cry: :cry:

[rsbriggs]

You need to call them. I ordered a case, fan and motherboard from them on the 26th - the day after you ordered yours, and I received the stuff this morning.

[jasong]

My package has a predicted delivery time of June 1st at 4:30 pm, so I'm going to give them one more day, and chalk it up to bad luck on my part.(for now)

[jasong]

Jun 1, 2005

7:32 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery CONWAY AR

7:24 am Arrived at FedEx Destination Location CONWAY AR
:D

[jasong]

The case arrived, but I'm going to wait until my dad gets home to open it. I really hope he found some thermal grease, otherwise he's going to make me wait 2 weeks 'til his friend gets back from Hawaii to get some from him.

Fingers crossed.

[rsbriggs]

Look at the heat sink. It may either come with some, or have some pre-applied....

If there is a white square on the bottom of the heat sink, then it has pre-applied thermal compound. If not, they sometimes come with a small applicator full.

If not either of those two options, any local computer shop that builds computers can sell you a small patch of peel off-stick-on thermal compound... Most times they have lots of it just laying around, and they'll give you some....

If neither of those, let me know and I'll drop you a small container of it in the mail...

[Bok]

I think I cleaned it up before sending it. I included the HS/Fan so it's not a new one as such.

So, definitely needs some new paste on.

Bok

[jasong]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
Look at the heat sink. It may either come with some, or have some pre-applied....

If there is a white square on the bottom of the heat sink, then it has pre-applied thermal compound. If not, they sometimes come with a small applicator full.

If not either of those two options, any local computer shop that builds computers can sell you a small patch of peel off-stick-on thermal compound... Most times they have lots of it just laying around, and they'll give you some....

If neither of those, let me know and I'll drop you a small container of it in the mail...
Thanks for the offer, rsbriggs. Right now I'm just hoping that my dad's already found some thermal grease.

There are probably dozens of people in Conway that have what I need and would be willing to give it away, if only I knew which door to go knock on. :D

[rsbriggs]

Ok - Well, worst case, I've got several packets laying around. If necessary, I can throw one in the mail, so there wouldn't be a reason to have to wait for two weeks, just the couple of days it would take to get there...

[jasong]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
Ok - Well, worst case, I've got several packets laying around. If necessary, I can throw one in the mail, so there wouldn't be a reason to have to wait for two weeks, just the couple of days it would take to get there...
Don't do that just yet. My mother is going to ask around tomorrow and try to obtain some here in Conway.

Right now, it's simply a waiting game.

One thing I'm interested in is how powerful the computer will actually be. It's rated as an XP2000, but that rating probably applies to things like responsiveness with web pages and how fast it can compress or convert files. No telling how it will do with programs like FaD, Eon, SOB, etc.

One thing I'm really hoping is that the Sobistrator equalize feature works across platforms, that would be really cool.

I hope the learning curve I face isn't too steep to handle comfortably.

I'm headed to go see what I have to do to get a Linux box to sieve.

[jasong]

[This portion was edited because of a good night's sleep, a newfound respect for my parents, and the fact that everybody has a tendency to screw up many, many times in their lives.]

All in all, it's been a day that could've been more satisfying in a multitude of ways, even if you leave out the idea of working on the computer.

Here's hoping tomorrow is better.

[jasong]

6/3/2005 1715hrs: My dad is attempting to put my computer together. We've got the fan attached with the appropriate amount of thermal grease.

Now he's just trying to get the ports on the board to line up correctly in the case. I'm watching VERRRRY carefully, but that's all he's letting me do.

[jasong]

Guys, we've got a MAJOR problem. Here's what we know:

It is a Spacewalker mainboard(I'm not sure what mainboard means)

We've got a bunch of connectors in a row on the edge of the board for power and other things, but have NO IDEA which connector is which. There are about 10-15 in a row and they look EXACTLY the same.

I'm going back to look for a serial number, but until we figure this out, there isn't much we can accomplish.

[Bok]

I've probably got the manual somewhere, I'll dig it out. Usually they are marked, albeit very small. Get a magnifying glass out perhaps.

I think it was the Shuttle AK32 board I sent?

Bok

[jasong]

Originally posted by Bok
I've probably got the manual somewhere, I'll dig it out. Usually they are marked, albeit very small. Get a magnifying glass out perhaps.

I think it was the Shuttle AK32 board I sent?

Bok
He thinks he's figured it out, but I have another question:

How do I communicate with my box. My dad is super-specialized when it comes to a computer, he only learns what he absolutely has to. He may work with computers as a job, but that's exactly what it is to him, a job. Do I somehow do it through the cable modem that was sent, or is there another way. Remember, all the communication with it after initial installation will be through my Windows machine.

[jasong]

My dad decided to give up without troubleshooting, but we did manage to get it put together. Here's what we know:

It turns on and the fan runs. The DVD drive is receiving power. The monitor displays absolutely nothing whatsoever.

I'm going to look at the do-it-youself computer manual I got from Hastings to try to come up with some way to troubleshoot it.

Ideas are welcome.

[PS2pcGAMER]

You need to set up some kind of network. If you have a router, that'd be easiest as if it has a switch you can just plug both computers in and it will be easy. If you don't have a router or switch, you can put another network card in your computer and then use a crossover cable and your computer will act as a gateway for your new computer.

I am not sure what kind of networking equipment you have as I only skimmed the thread. If you need a switch though I think I have an extra...I need to test it though. It may be a hub, I can't remember. I got it from Ironbits. Let us know what kind of hardware you have and we'll give you more detail.

Once all of the networking is taken care of, you can use VNC to monitor it. I use tightvnc (http://www.tightvnc.com/) to monitor remote windows computers. It is really easy to setup. You can also use it on Linux and VNC together if you decide to go that route, but SSH is easier once you get used to the command line.


As for why you are getting a blank screen, the first thing I'd try is resetting the CMOS. Depending on the motherboard, there should be a jumper near the battery on the motherboard. There should be 3 pins total, and the jumper will be connecting two of them. Move it so it is connected to the one that isn't currently connected and one that is (make sense?). Wait a minute or so and then move it back and try booting the computer. Also, if the case speaker is hooked up, it should give you some kind of beep that will help you figure out the problem.

[jasong]

I'm logging in from my grandmother's computer right now.(btw, I had trouble logging in from the main page, in both Netscape and Internet Explorer. This login was after I clicked the new post button)

we're giving up for now on the won computer since my dad says the next troubleshooting step is to swap out the video card. Simple reason for quitting, we don't have another video card. So we WILL be waiting until his friend comes back in a couple weeks.

Until then, I'm going to work on my Linux skills using my brother's old 350MHz computer, which I believe is AMD.

So the new problem is going to be:

NETWORKING!!!

My grandmother's in the hospital and my father is suffering from heat exhaustion, so going out to buy equipment is something which might have to wait, unless my mother drives.

Right now, I'm going to hope my brother's computer starts up without a hitch and install Linux on it.

Fingers crossed.

[jasong]

My brother's computer is up and running.

I've recently found out that the Windows 2000 program it has on it is a legally owned copy, meaning that the reason for me wanting to use Linux is gone.

It's only 500MHz and sieves the 50M dat at about 50 kb/s, so I gave it a 50 billion number assignment and reattached my main computer, which I'm typing on now. I'm hoping to practice my networking skills on this one, before my father's friend gets back from Hawaii to help with the computer that is SUPPOSED to be the one connected.

Question: My dad has a hub he uses to give everyone leech access to the cable modem. We haven't experimented with file transfer a whole heck of a lot, so I have to ask:

Can I attach my extra computer to the hub and communicate with it?

Another thing, which I just now thought of, since the hub is connected to the Internet, can viruses attach themselves to it by my simply attaching it to the hub?

Update(question):I have a USB/Ethernet update adaptor(that's what my dad calls it) which was originally connected to my Tivo(my Tivo still needs it, btw). Is it possible to connect through THAT?

Update # 2:Tomorrow, we're going to get my grandmother's monitor and try to get the two computers to communicate. I've already downloaded VNC to the computer, by searching for it on the Internet.

Hopefully, I'll be able to make a connection tomorrow.

Once again, fingers crossed.

If you have any advice, try to give it before noon tomorrow(this message was originally started at 6:11 pm)

[jasong]

Sorry about the three posts in a row, but I have a mildly off-topic observation:

On SOB sieving, my computer gets about 50 kp/s, compared to about 440, about a 9 to 1 ratio, but on FaD it should get about 45, compared to 160 for my 2500+ Sempron, about a 7 to 2 ratio, about 2-3 times as good. The FaD rating is from before my present computer.

As soon as I can get my old computer, now running sieving without any interaction from me, on a network with my new one, I'm going to get it up and running FaD.

[jasong]

I've reread these other posts on the forum and decided I'm an idiot. The reason for the conclusion is the fact that I have my computers connected through an Ethernet port with RealVNC installed on both, but I JUST NOW realized that only one has a network card.

If I remember correctly, it gets a FaD rating of about 45, or it did 6 months ago.

Do you guys think it would be worthwhile to request a network card for EACH machine(including the 188 rated one from Bok), or should I forget about my slow 500MHz machine and simply concentrate on the one I won from Bok?

Either way, I need at least ONE network card.

My dad informed me my slow computer already HAS a network card, so that's not the problem. Unfortunately, my computer keeps timing out the attempted connection with a 10060 error. :confused:

Edit: I just realized I'm in the wrong forum for my problem. Going to the networking forum.

[jasong]

Just to let everyone know, dad got me a hub(I owe him $10) and my 500MHz computer is now networked using Windows XP networking. Sometime in the next 15 minutes to an hour it will be crunching FaD work units at about 45 points(360 GFlops) an hour.

As for the one I won, we're still waiting on the guy my dad says to needs to talk to come back from Hawaii, sometime around the middle of June. Then I'll have a more respectable herd, if not an impressive one.

/me would dance if he knew how.:|party|:

Edit: Now running 1m2r-q1, if memory serves.

[jasong]

On Tuesday the 21st my dad took the computer to his friend to look at it. Apparently, his friend is going to put it together for us, but only when he has free time. Claimed it would take about a week. For all I know, it may be crunching stuff for me this Monday night.

Fingers crossed.

[jasong]

Received a working computer yesterday, unfortunately(IMO) it would've required Linux to be installed to take advantage of available RAM. I convinced my dad to to disassemble another older working computer(my brother's previously mentioned 500MHz AMD) to get it working. Unfortunately, after his 20-30 minutes of tinkering, the new one refused to recognize the hard drive. He's going to ask his friend at work what to do.

Should be home in an hour or so, I'll ask him then.

[rsbriggs]

Unless it has more than 4 GB of ram installed , Linux wouldn't be a requirement to either recognize or utilize it.

[jasong]

Originally posted by rsbriggs
Unless it has more than 4 GB of ram installed , Linux wouldn't be a requirement to either recognize or utilize it.
Sorry, poor use of words on my part. Without the older disassembled computer's parts, it would only have about 64MB available.

[rsbriggs]

If you took the (probably) PC100 or PC133 ram out of a 500 Mhz computer and somehow put it into a "more modern" computer expecting PC3200 or PC2700 ram, you haven't done yourself much of a favor.

It's actually kind of surprising that it even fits, most of the older computers had 168 pin SDRAM, more modern computers use 184 pin DDR, which has a different pin arrangement.

But then, you said a working computer, not necessarly a newer computer, didn't you?

[jasong]

Sorry for taking this long to tell you guys, but I now have two computers doing Riesel Sieving at the moment. One gets a rating of 90-95kp/s and the other gets a rating of about 70kp/s.

Not stellar, but still pretty fabulous when you consider that one's free, and the other one's upgrade is paid for off of a $600 a month check that has to last me the whole month.

For those who care, I live with my parents and pay them $385 a month for the privilege. They would let me live here for free, but the Arkansas government made it clear that if my parent's didn't charge for rent, I wouldn't receive the money for rent in the first place, so it would be a free ride that wouldn't benefit either of us.

I get a $100 a week mad money, which is what ended up paying for my Sempron upgrade. The rest is for unanticipated emergencies. When my bank account is at a point where my mother feels safe handing out extra money, that's when the upgrades happen.