Moogie
06-04-2002, 07:33 PM
From Jerry Pournelle's site (http://www.jerrypournelle.com)
Posting date: 2 June 2002
Do you agree or disagree?
Moo
= = = = = = = = = =
Jerry states:
... had this from a friend who is both engineer and philosopher, regarding
the value of a modern college education:
- - - - -
"I need my own econometric model, before I can make such an estimate. . But
I'm willing to say that a big fraction of everything in academia is trash.
Feminist studies are just trash, ethnic studies are trash, almost all
sociology is just trash, everything Marxist is just trash, everything
Freudian is just trash, departments of education are just trash. Cultural
anthropology is mostly trash. Now I'm sure that someone will cite
exceptions, just as there is undoubtedly a buried quarter in every
barge-load of New York's garbage, but I think the generalization holds, to
the degree that bulldozing would be a kindness.
Next I should condemn the stuff that is valid but utterly uninteresting to
every human that has ever lived or ever will. Lots of that, too."
- - - - -
Jerry replies:
His conclusion is that aside from networking there is no value in a college
education outside a few specific fields like science and engineering, and
even those are crumbling (see FALLEN ANGELS by Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn,
and incidentally a new edition of that will be out this fall from Baen).
The worst of it is that it may be true: what is taught in college now that
is valuable? And, I find, the heads of several departments of sociology and
anthropology quickly agreed with my friend (this was in a discussion group I
am privileged to be part of). Even the elders of Academe now wonder why
people waste their money and their time there.
Long ago I predicted all this and had my space heroes get educations in
Westinghouse University and such like; what I failed to see was that the
corporations themselves are falling victim to the general undermining of
Western Civilization and many of them are not really Western at all. A war
between China and Taiwan would just about end the computer business, no?
CISCO designs its equipment but makes nothing in the US; manufacturing wise
it is a distribution channel for off-shore made equipment. Gateway is
pretty well a distribution channel for Taiwan-made components. The US
Government budget is considerably larger than the entire manufacturing
payroll of the US. It is now our duty to consume, not to produce.
Or am I, I hope, wrong? But where does one go for an education now? By
education I mean a systematic introduction to the essentials of Western
Civilization, what makes it tick, why the West is what it is, and we are who
we are; why the imbecilities that have become political correctness are
exaggerations of Western trends, and when they collapse from inner absurdity
there will be little to inspire a recovery. If one does know know much about
the sources of one's moral beliefs, then how to recover from collapse?
As Chesterton said, those who cease to believe do not then believe nothing,
they believe the veriest nonsense that may float about and be appealing:
they will often believe anything. If you can make yourself believe that it
is right to do what is daily done in the name of homeland security, what
will you not believe?
Posting date: 2 June 2002
Do you agree or disagree?
Moo
= = = = = = = = = =
Jerry states:
... had this from a friend who is both engineer and philosopher, regarding
the value of a modern college education:
- - - - -
"I need my own econometric model, before I can make such an estimate. . But
I'm willing to say that a big fraction of everything in academia is trash.
Feminist studies are just trash, ethnic studies are trash, almost all
sociology is just trash, everything Marxist is just trash, everything
Freudian is just trash, departments of education are just trash. Cultural
anthropology is mostly trash. Now I'm sure that someone will cite
exceptions, just as there is undoubtedly a buried quarter in every
barge-load of New York's garbage, but I think the generalization holds, to
the degree that bulldozing would be a kindness.
Next I should condemn the stuff that is valid but utterly uninteresting to
every human that has ever lived or ever will. Lots of that, too."
- - - - -
Jerry replies:
His conclusion is that aside from networking there is no value in a college
education outside a few specific fields like science and engineering, and
even those are crumbling (see FALLEN ANGELS by Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn,
and incidentally a new edition of that will be out this fall from Baen).
The worst of it is that it may be true: what is taught in college now that
is valuable? And, I find, the heads of several departments of sociology and
anthropology quickly agreed with my friend (this was in a discussion group I
am privileged to be part of). Even the elders of Academe now wonder why
people waste their money and their time there.
Long ago I predicted all this and had my space heroes get educations in
Westinghouse University and such like; what I failed to see was that the
corporations themselves are falling victim to the general undermining of
Western Civilization and many of them are not really Western at all. A war
between China and Taiwan would just about end the computer business, no?
CISCO designs its equipment but makes nothing in the US; manufacturing wise
it is a distribution channel for off-shore made equipment. Gateway is
pretty well a distribution channel for Taiwan-made components. The US
Government budget is considerably larger than the entire manufacturing
payroll of the US. It is now our duty to consume, not to produce.
Or am I, I hope, wrong? But where does one go for an education now? By
education I mean a systematic introduction to the essentials of Western
Civilization, what makes it tick, why the West is what it is, and we are who
we are; why the imbecilities that have become political correctness are
exaggerations of Western trends, and when they collapse from inner absurdity
there will be little to inspire a recovery. If one does know know much about
the sources of one's moral beliefs, then how to recover from collapse?
As Chesterton said, those who cease to believe do not then believe nothing,
they believe the veriest nonsense that may float about and be appealing:
they will often believe anything. If you can make yourself believe that it
is right to do what is daily done in the name of homeland security, what
will you not believe?