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Thread: Getting work to do

  1. #1
    Senior Member Chuck's Avatar
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    Question Getting work to do

    All,
    With the recent tweaks to the windows OS by Alpha, there clearly isn't enough work being metered out of the Server.


    If memory serves, someone here knows how to get in contact with Lijun.

    If so, and we agree, can we please ask Lijun to set the server to allow more work to be distributed (jobs/hr or jobs/user or jobs/day)? If the server is at its max, then perhaps they can slave on another machine or something?

    It seems that Eon, as it should, doesn't take a lot of CPU resources to run and if someone wanted to push extra resources... then 2 or 3 cores of 3-6 instances should be enough, but even here, with my DSL, it runs great for a while, then starves waiting for work.... This is a far cry better than being unable to return work (as it was in the past).

    Can this be brought to Lijun's attention promptly? I think we as FDC can gain a lot and Eon can get a lot more work done.

    Thoughts???

    Thanks,
    Chuck




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  2. #2
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    Sent. Will post reply.

    Having said that, let me point out that answers to this type of question have been posted before. Essentially, (as well as I understand it) the parameters of the current situation are flung out to the troops. Answers come back and are applied to the problem. Fine, so far. Rinse and repeat indefinitely. Then the server gets to a point where it has to figure out a way "over the hump". Processing slows. If it's a major hump, processing stops. ZZZ's happen. Impatience ensues. Sometimes, the server gets SO hung up that only a kick in the butt will get it going again. Most times, it gets there by itself, although it does seem to slow down overall with time and eventually requires a reboot to get the ball rolling.

    The situation is vastly improved over the pre-Lijun period. He has really improved the situation, but it appears to be limited in scope, possibly by the way the problem is being approached. In other words, it might be possible to get a quantum leap, but at this stage it might require a major rewrite.

    I have forwarded your concerns and also asked for a project progress update, as we haven't heard anything in quite a while.

    Stand by.
    Last edited by Paratima; 04-20-2008 at 09:48 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Chuck's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks to Paratima and Alpha... GREAT JOB

    Paratima, thanks for sending out the email promptly.... Greatly appreciated! I guess the decision to inquire to Lijun was a nobrainer.

    I noticed a lot more work starvation today, but in total, it seems as if we all are getting more work done. Bravo, and thank you Alpha!!!

    This is one of those times when I wish I knew/remembered the win32 internals.

    Alpha, again thanks for being there with the knowledge and right tools for the job at the right time as well as the 'manual way' (love working with regedit) of getting it done. I use PC-Tools other products, but not this one yet... guess now I will be needing it as I lose that knowledge/memory of the internals.

    Thanks to EVERYONE who has been keeping their eyes open and looking in documentation to find the parameter names and values. I suspect this will have impact on MANY of our projects!!!!!

    Good night all.... I look forward to some great news about Eon improvements as well as our other DC projects. I smell some great impact on other projects and can't wait to 'catch the other teams with their pants down'...


    Cheers,
    Chuck




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  4. #4
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    Interestingly, I checked my registry and found that the change to 30 seconds had already been made!

    Then I remembered that, using Firefox as my browser, I had installed a helper app named, ingeniously, Tweak Network Settings. Ran it once after installation, selected "Max Everything". (Well, of course!) And never thought about it again. Seems to have made that adjustment, among others.

    Will be interested at Lijun's response - also cc'd Graeme (Dr. Henkelman) who is the overall project admin and who wrote the original code, btw. He it was who brought EON from its birthplace in UWashington to UTexas.
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  5. #5
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    PS. Ironbits and I pretty much agree on this about EON:

    1. Put as much horsepower on it as you feel moved to do.
    2. Make sure everything's running nicely.
    3. Turn your monitor's ON/OFF switch to the OFF position
    4. Go play with your kids/dog/cat/wife/motorcycle/whatever. DON'T watch it and you'll be happier.
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  6. #6
    Dungeon Master alpha's Avatar
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    Excellent, I'm glad to hear it if you're experiencing improvements since making that change to the registry. I'm not sure if a reboot is required or not after the tweak. I don't think I've rebooted yet so I can't really comment on whether I'm seeing any changes or not. Actually, I'll reboot now.

    Of course, it would be great if we could get less ZZZs and jump on this as a primary project instead of a side runner. We could then maybe push for top place. I use a tool called SetPriority by Digital Parasite to make sure eOn gets the cycles when work is available.

    Edit: the reboot seems to have done the trick, I'm seeing the sockets closing much quicker now.
    Last edited by alpha; 04-21-2008 at 04:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    OK, here's the best I can do at the moment.
    First, see this link, which describes the start-up.

    Then see 2nd link, which talks about the changes made a year ago.

    See my feeble description of the processing cycle above.

    After I passed along your query, I got this:
    Hi Les,
    We are getting a new graduate student to work on this EON project. It is gonna take some time for him to get used to it. Thanks for advice.
    Lijun


    So, some days, you're the pigeon; some days, you're the statue. Progress is sometimes just about as slow as the processes being calculated. Could be wrong, but I read the response as being, "We're reasonably happy with what we've got and any changes are going to take a while."

    They may not have the resources to do any better right now. As I explained above, it's not particularly a lack of processing power as much as the cycle of the processing algorithm. Not knowing any more about the overall scheme of things makes it hard to make meaningful suggestions. I, and others, have found some correctable items in the past, but unless you're there...
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  8. #8
    If you want to make EON "crank" do a ton of installs.
    One day for chuckles I decided to see if I could match that 'Welltest" account which is their computer lab with 75 dual cores.
    Tossed 2 clovers, a Q6600 and an old FX51 at it.
    60 installs on each of the clovers, 35 on the Q6600 and 7 on the FX51 to max out the machines..
    Yup, I got 'em that day..

  9. #9
    Target Butt IronBits's Avatar
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    I had over 150 clients running there for a while about a year ago.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronBits View Post
    I had over 150 clients running there for a while about a year ago.
    And today? Try to match Mercenaries output...

  11. #11
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    I have 90 clients running right now one on each node here
    And weltest is still doing 7 X my output
    And even when I had 300 clients running here 3 per node
    I only came close to 80% of his out put
    movieman Can you do a repeat of this match for us

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    I have 90 clients running right now one on each node here
    And weltest is still doing 7 X my output
    And even when I had 300 clients running here 3 per node
    I only came close to 80% of his out put
    movieman Can you do a repeat of this match for us
    Install 13 clients per core...This is what I have:

    1 x AMD 64 with 13 instances
    1 x P4 with 13 instances
    1 x Q6600 with 52 instances

  13. #13
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    Install 13 clients per core...This is what I have:

    1 x AMD 64 with 13 instances
    1 x P4 with 13 instances
    1 x Q6600 with 52 instances
    Uesing your numbers
    I need to start up 2,041 clients here
    I do not think EoN has the power to keep up with a push like that

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    Uesing your numbers
    I need to start up 2,041 clients here
    I do not think EoN has the power to keep up with a push like that
    I think the server can handle the increase of connections....Start having 6 clients per core and wait to see what happens.

  15. #15
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    I think the server can handle the increase of connections....Start having 6 clients per core and wait to see what happens.
    I am getting ZZZZZ that make each My PC's Beg for 3 to 5 min 's for new work
    If I start up 900+ clients((6 Per core)) that wait time will jump to 5 to 8 Min's for all members

    From what I have seen EoN does not have the Power to supply the needs of it's membership as it stands right now
    Adding the power you are suggesting would only I think would Overwhelm the server to the point that no one will be happy with the Project

    When I first jumped in EoN at full speed at only 3 per core that is just what happened the wait time went to 10 min per client

    Waiting like that to me is a Waste of CPU time and power Not to mention Bandwidth

    I think until the Admins upgrade or streamline there there Server load
    I will keep it at 1 per node not core

    If the EoN's Admins are reading this I hope you can see my points and make improvements to there system

  16. #16
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    You talk too much, bring them on....

  17. #17
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    I think Lauren's right. EON is a self-eating watermelon.

    If the boys at UT thought they could needed to get more science done than is happening now, they would find a way to streamline the process. An alternative explanation may be that they are, after all, scientists, NOT programmers. It may be beyond their means to even visualize, much less produce a more effective system.

    (No, I don't think very highly of scientists, who are not trained as programmers, writing their own code. Look at Proteins @ home for an example.)

    If they want my GHz, they know where to find me.
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  18. #18
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    You talk too much, bring them on....
    Thats Funny My Wife Said The Same Thing To Me Last night When I Came to Bed

  19. #19
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Well the work seems to be flowing Get the WU;s while you CAN

  20. #20
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    You talk too much, bring them on....
    So now how am I doing
    I am at 1 client per core now instead of 1 client per Node I was
    I am doing 50% of the teams output Is this what you meant by "bring them on"

    em99010pepe do you and your DC Mercenaries want to Race to a mill
    I Only Have 3 more week of runtime before I have to shut down for a month
    Might as well have fun with it

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    So now how am I doing
    I am at 1 client per core now instead of 1 client per Node I was
    I am doing 50% of the teams output Is this what you meant by "bring them on"

    em99010pepe do you and your DC Mercenaries want to Race to a mill
    I Only Have 3 more week of runtime before I have to shut down for a month
    Might as well have fun with it
    You are doing great!
    I reserved another thing for my machines and I need at least two weeks to complete it. Then we can race.

    Carlos

  22. #22
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    You are doing great!
    I reserved another thing for my machines and I need at least two weeks to complete it. Then we can race.

    Carlos
    Well I Guess I WIN then

  23. #23
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    Don't be sure about that.

  24. #24
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em99010pepe View Post
    You talk too much, bring them on....
    Don't be sure about that.
    Now You are the one talking too much, bring them on....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    Now You are the one talking too much, bring them on....
    I have to shutdown (still live with my parents) for a few weeks all my home machines due to high electricity bill.... I might move them to work, still thinking. My problem is that my work contract ends this June and I won't renew it because there's no projects to finance our salaries. Because I want to finish my master degree I'll have access to the lab where I work, and this is my option, and not to move to another unit, in the institution I work, where I have a place to work (two jobs offer). I'll make a pause of 2-3 months to end my master thesis...I think this is a good choice. I can't work and make the thesis at the same time. For the moment I am dedicated to it and I prefer to stay in that way.

    Carlos

  26. #26
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    OK

  27. #27
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    So what is up with this site Any word from anyone
    Will they get there site and stats back up ?????

  28. #28
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    Didn't even realize it was down until I read your post. Any idea (anyone) on when it went down?

    I've sent an email asking for details - will share any answers I get posthaste.
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  29. #29
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paratima View Post
    Didn't even realize it was down until I read your post. Any idea (anyone) on when it went down?

    I've sent an email asking for details - will share any answers I get posthaste.
    I think it has off line for 3 or 4 days now last Data Updated : 2008-04-27 03:01:27

    It has beem sooooo long I might be in 1st place already or not hehe

  30. #30
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    The EON work server is back up, as you probably know. According to Lijun, "a large job clogged the memory. I cleaned it up and the server started again."

    I wrote back that part of the problem is we can't get through to the web server, consequently we can't run 3rd-party stats. Hopefully, he'll see that & give it a reboot or whatever.
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  31. #31
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    I must be Sucking the Work Server Dry
    Even weltest can't get it up to 30 K today

  32. #32
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    I must be Sucking the Work Server Dry
    Even weltest can't get it up to 30 K today
    Do you think the other teams like Team Norway & DPC will give up if I keep up the hogging of WU's from the Server ?
    Seems like they were stating a little Push when one of My DSL lines went down

  33. #33
    Target Butt IronBits's Avatar
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    Keep on Keeping on

  34. #34
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    I'll bug EON Central again. Seems to get a bit of work flowing, but never lasts very long. I'll try anyhow.
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  35. #35
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paratima View Post
    I'll bug EON Central again. Seems to get a bit of work flowing, but never lasts very long. I'll try anyhow.
    I sent them Email a week ago but no reply

  36. #36
    Ancient Programmer Paratima's Avatar
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    Yup. I think we're just running up against the natural boundaries of the interactive way EON works. Throwing a ton more CPU power at it, from our side, won't make a squeek of difference. We're limited by how fast the server can do its bit.

    I've requested that we at least get an update on where the project stands in terms of its own goals. We haven't had an update on that score in over a year. You like to think that things are being accomplished by your work, that science is being served, but unless they communicate, we just don't know. Frustrating.
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  37. #37
    =>Team Joker<= LAURENU2's Avatar
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    I guess they ran out of WU's for today.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAURENU2 View Post
    Do you think the other teams like Team Norway & DPC will give up if I keep up the hogging of WU's from the Server ?
    Seems like they were stating a little Push when one of My DSL lines went down
    Well, it's a shame we can see the difference in getting WU's when it happens.

    At this moment not many DPC'ers are into eOn because of the lack of getting WU's, maybe Free-DC likes it this way.
    But I agree that some news (and lots of WU's) from the guys of eOn would be appreciated.
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  39. #39
    Dungeon Master alpha's Avatar
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    Seconded! News and work units would be very nice. Maybe if enough of us poke the admins we'll get an answer.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha View Post
    Seconded! News and work units would be very nice. Maybe if enough of us poke the admins we'll get an answer.
    Maybe we can set up a DC-project for that!
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