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Anarchy99
11-28-2003, 11:00 AM
just let your nephews play Quake and UnReal Tournament on your laptop all turkey day and you too can be on top with me :cheers:

Fozzie
11-28-2003, 11:38 AM
The names of your nephews, I need a few more names for the Ut bots for target practice.

:machgun:

Anarchy99
11-28-2003, 12:46 PM
david and drew

and now I rock:cheers:

Moogie
11-28-2003, 12:54 PM
:rotfl:

You two are great!

the-mk
11-28-2003, 03:10 PM
Wow! Thanks to you two! We are now at rank 40 in teamstats!

:thumbs: :cheers:

PS: I need more mousemoves :( I'm only 9th :(

Anarchy99
12-04-2003, 04:58 PM
OH YA BABY

when we started this thing I loaded the mouse tracker on one of the CAD computers at work and then just forgot about it :D

before leaving work one of the guys in the CAD room asked what the Icon was and I explained it to him not really thinking about it :D

you are not gonna believe this

WWWWHHHHHOOOOOOOHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

check the stats people:cheers:

Anarchy99
12-04-2003, 05:01 PM
I just called and had them sent :D

knock knock

yes

do you like apples

ya

well how do you like them apples :rotfl:

the-mk
12-04-2003, 05:06 PM
I'm waiting for my next dataspider-run on the-mk.dbestern.net for this stats

the-mk
12-04-2003, 05:10 PM
My dataspider ran...

Oh my good, you uploaded more then 15 km!

That pushes you on #1 teamrank and the team on rank 28 (+2 ranks!)!

:cheers:

wirthi
12-05-2003, 02:07 AM
Wow ... now we know who the real computer geek is: Anarchy99 !!!:notworthy

Fozzie
12-05-2003, 05:28 PM
you will be my bitch again A99:whip:

pfb
12-05-2003, 06:00 PM
I'll think I'll stick with 3rd place :)

Nice going though :cheers:

wirthi
12-05-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by pfb
I'll think I'll stick with 3rd place :)Not as long as I participate. Would you mind stepping aside and letting me take place #3 :Pokes:

Hehe. I'm coming for you! :D

the-mk
12-05-2003, 06:18 PM
I see: there is competition in tha house! :cheers:

alpha
12-06-2003, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by Anarchy99
when we started this thing I loaded the mouse tracker on one of the CAD computers at work and then just forgot about it :D

I don't mean to put a downer on this, and I'm not bitter about not being in first place anymore :D. Just thought I would mention that unless you are racking up the distances yourself (i.e. not installing the software on someone elses computer and getting credit for their mouse movements), then it is probably considered cheating.


just let your nephews play Quake and UnReal Tournament on your laptop all turkey day

*cough* :)

wirthi
12-06-2003, 06:04 AM
just let your nephews play Quake and UnReal Tournament on your laptop all turkey day

*cough* :)
I also hate cheaters. Still, I don't think this can be considered as cheating. Depends on how often other persons are using your computer. If it's every now and then: forget it. If it's continously and a high amount of your "moves" has been done by somebody else: forget it.

With all those Type-, Scroll-, Move-, Klick-, Whatever- projects it is hard to define what cheating is. If my code is not working and I smash my keyboard, do I cheat? When I click F5 10 minutes long once a second since my favourite homepage shows "too many connections"? When I start painting like mad in paintbrush abain: cheating?

Ok, if somebody else is using your computer it's even harder to tell. On the other hand, while he's using your's you can't use it. So I guess it's ok for me.

And the reason why I typed all this: Tiny key counter :D

alpha
12-06-2003, 06:22 AM
It isn't a particularly fine line between what we are discussing.

If you are using a computer with the mousetracker software running under your username, it is ok.
If somebody else is using a computer with the mousetracker software running under your username, it is not ok.

Likewise for the keycounting software, its only supposed to count your own keystrokes. Back in the days of Project Dolphin, the admin claimed one of the reasons for starting the project was for curious people to see how much they typed. Not how much you and your family and your friends and their family typed.

Anarchy99
12-06-2003, 08:23 AM
if I get this right I am being accussed of cheating ?

so if I put DF on several computers I dont own I am also cheating correct ?

I will pull the clients for these projects off my computer and any others and will no longer run them

I have never cheated for the purpose of winning and will not be the target of petty accusations about it either

I have never seen any requirement for a single instance and would have been happy to comply with it if there was one

but that doesnt matter anymore now does it

:mad:

alpha
12-06-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Anarchy99
if I get this right I am being accussed of cheating ?

Kinda.


so if I put DF on several computers I dont own I am also cheating correct ?

No, we are talking about key-counters and mouse trackers. Distributed computing projects that utilise your CPU do not follow such rules. That would have a detrimental effect on the project as a whole.


I will pull the clients for these projects off my computer and any others and will no longer run them

I think you are misunderstanding.


I have never seen any requirement for a single instance and would have been happy to comply with it if there was one

The requirement is not a single instance. The requirement is that only you are using the computer when the tracking/counting software is running, otherwise you are being given credit for other people using the computer.



Permitted Uses of the TKC Client Software, Service, and Centralized Server
Users are permitted to run the TKC software without a user account, but registering an account is encouraged. All users of the TKC service are hereby also permitted to download, install, and run multiple copies of the TKC software provided that only one person uses each copy of the software, and only one person submits statistics to the Centralized Server. Users may also use a single copy of the TKC software among several users, provided that multiple persons do not make use of a single account at any time, regardless of whether or not said mutiple users are using the TKC account concurrently.

Unacceptable Uses of the TKC Client Software, Service, and Centralized Server
Users must use TKC accounts at a one-user-to-account ratio. Multiple persons may not submit statistics under a single account name. Conversely, one person may not submit statistics under multiple account names. Users must refrain from artificially inflating statistics or submitting falsified statistics. Any statistics that are determined by PiQ Software, LLC to be physically impossible or artificially fabricated will be removed from the database without question. Multiple instances of such fabrications will lead to a permanent ban from the TKC service. If an account name, optional user profile, or other information contains profanity or inappropriate language, the owning account will be disabled immediately and the account holder warned via email. Continued use of inappropriate material on the service will lead to a permanent ban from the service.


Obviously this applies to the TKC project. I have not found anything written like this for the mouse tracker, but I assumed this was common knowledge/etiquette.

I didn't mean to point the finger A99, merely bring light to the fact that there are rules. :thumbs:

Anarchy99
12-06-2003, 01:13 PM
after reading your post and considering the obligation that a participant in those projects has to not only the project but the team I have decided to remove A99 from the team in those projects.

my reasons are as follows:

1. my production was accumulated by more than myself

2. the perception of impropriety is worse than the impropriety itself (ie. cheating)

3. if the members of the team feel this way then that leaves the team as well as myself open to ridicule for it having happened, I will not allow a negative light to be shed on this team due to my aggressive interpretation of the use of a project and how I produce results from it for the team, I have way to much respect for the team and its members to not deal with this immediately and completely

I do however hope to rejoin the team and produce under the guidelines with which the project was started, but choose not to at this time

in the future I will take better care to research the projects I am involved in before running them and or joining a team

A99

Fozzie
12-06-2003, 02:20 PM
That's kinda put a major downer on it hasn't it.

Now how do we look at this "project"

I for one look at it as a bit of fun and nothing more.

There's no science in it and no-one is going to benefit so what the hell is the harm of a misinterpretation of the "rules"

I'll be bollocks'ed if I looked at any rules on this.

I'm damn sure I twirl the mouse a little more than I used to whilst waiting for a page to display via IE.

Now is this cheating?

I'm damn sure if I wasn't monitoring my mouse moves I wouldn't be doing it.

I don't sit around for hours swirling the mouse or hammering the buttons but I am sure my mouse takes a more circular route whilst clicking on buttons.

A simple PM would have sufficed but casting half a gallon of shite in A's direction does suck arse big time.

Not happy about this at all.

This is a fun thing to do whilst you are doing serious or not so serious work on the PC, period.

alpha
12-07-2003, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by Fozzie
I for one look at it as a bit of fun and nothing more.

It is still fun when you stick to the rules.


There's no science in it and no-one is going to benefit so what the hell is the harm of a misinterpretation of the "rules"

Did you bother to look at the website at all? The whole thing is a competition to see who is the first to reach a certain distance.


I'll be bollocks'ed if I looked at any rules on this.

Exactly. I know you are fairly new to Free-DC, but that isn't exactly the attitude to have. I think I speak for everyone when I say that Free-DC does not want a reputation of being a cheating team. How do you know if you are cheating or not if you don't read the rules?


I'm damn sure I twirl the mouse a little more than I used to whilst waiting for a page to display via IE.

I don't think there are many people that can admit they haven't done this.


Now is this cheating?

I doubt anyone is going to point fingers at you for twirling your mouse a little more than usual.


A simple PM would have sufficed but casting half a gallon of shite in A's direction does suck arse big time.

It's nice to hear what you think of the rules. You forget that as a member of Free-DC, you are representing the team as a whole. If members of the team are willing to blatantly state that the rules aren't worth reading, I am not sure I want to be a member of the team at all anymore. Rules are a public thing, and clearly A99 wasn't the only member that didn't realise how restricting the rules are.

You should be thanking me for what I am doing here, before a member of another team sees this thread and reports it to the project admins as cheating. I am merely trying to maintain a good reputation for the team.


Not happy about this at all.

You are not the only one. I know you are a fairly new member of Free-DC and I hope that over time you realise what kind of team this is, and change your attitude accordingly.


This is a fun thing to do whilst you are doing serious or not so serious work on the PC, period.

Yes, it is supposed to be fun. It is still fun when you stick to the rules. I know that A99 wasn't aware of the rules, so I cannot blame him for trying to improve our ranking. But you are saying that you don't care about the rules, whether you are breaking them or not.

wirthi
12-07-2003, 10:27 AM
Come on guys, calm down.

May there be rules or not, it's obvious this project is about "how much YOU moved your mouse around." Now, as Fozzie and I and maybe others have said, it's hard to determine the exact value when YOU move the mouse around and if that move should be counted.

As always, those rules have to be interpreted a bit:

* Whenever I move my mouse, it's ok, whatever the reason may be why I move it (and be it a shitty IE that makes me nervous).

* Is another one *accidently* moving my mouse, I guess it's ok, too.

* If I know my girlfriend is now writing her diploma thesis on my PC, I'd shut the client down (everytime she logs on).

~~~~~~~

I don't know what A99 has done to arouse these troubles but I don't think just letting play his nephews for a day can't be enough to call him a cheater. Guess he didn't invite his nephews just for improving his rank at Mouse Tracker?

I'd call it cheating when you install the client on PCs that are not (mainly) used by yourself or constructing a machine (or software) that moves the mouse continously over night.

There is no exact rule how to handle this. And there is no butcher coming choping of you hand if you installed the client on a PC that could possibly used by somebody else.

Just my two eurocent ...

pfb
12-07-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by wirthi
Come on guys, calm down.

I don't know what A99 has done to arouse these troubles but I don't think just letting play his nephews for a day can't be enough to call him a cheater. Guess he didn't invite his nephews just for improving his rank at Mouse Tracker?

I'd call it cheating when you install the client on PCs that are not (mainly) used by yourself or constructing a machine (or software) that moves the mouse continously over night.

There is no exact rule how to handle this. And there is no butcher coming choping of you hand if you installed the client on a PC that could possibly used by somebody else.

Just my two eurocent ...

I think it was the fact that A99 had the client on another PC (a CAD workstation - 5th post in) which netted ~15km of movement...looking at the BeWeS site it isn't too clear on the rules but there is a post on the forums which says:


...not cheating as long as you are the only person using the computers.

http://forum.bewes.be/viewtopic/23


With things like this (and keycounters) some common sense is required - obviously if the computer isn't yours or used by you (either home or work) then whatever is racked up on it isn't yours and can't be counted to your account...with 'proper' DC projects the 'ownership' of results isn't a concern (unless you are using PCs without the owner's permission :p)...

So - it's a shame that A99 (whether he cheated knowingly or had a lapse of judgment) has left but hopefully it'll clarify how and when these types of clients can be used...

Fozzie
12-07-2003, 11:52 AM
and I don't like "holier than thou" attitudes either.

Not a wise thing to do to brand people cheats on a public forum.

Have fun with mousetracker.

excaliber
12-07-2003, 12:20 PM
Wow...lots of hostility goin on in here :)

Lets calm it down a tad, eh?

wirthi
12-07-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Fozzie
... Have fun with mousetracker.
That's my point. Nobody benefits from those projects. There is no real goal. There is no real use. They'r just for fun.

The only use I see: I can compare with other how much I use my computer (to find out that I use it too much ... :D ). If the others are obious cheaters I don't look at their scores. If somebody has about the same score as I have, I assume he is no cheater.

When A99 has installed this client on somebody elses PC, than that's a violation of the rules, you could call it "cheating". Still, I wouldn't make such a fuzz out of it. Who benefits from it? Does A99 get anything for it? Does the team get anything? Does the project benefit? No. We improve in stats, that's all. And, be honest, stats are not _that_ important (I disbelieve what I just said ...).

Anarchy99
12-07-2003, 03:04 PM
guys cmon this is done, its over and it matters not

look I loaded these projects on multiple computers and treated A99 as a sub team for production just like I have done with every project I have ever run

I explained that I was removing my production and why

there is no need to even discuss this further

:p

the-mk
03-06-2004, 04:42 PM
Yes we do! :cheers:

And a big welcome to our fourth Austrian on the team!

:elephant: :bouncy: Welcome rofn! :|party|: :drums:

Get a cold one :cheers: from the :fridge: and enjoy the stats on http://the-mk.dbestern.net/bmt/

rofn
03-18-2004, 03:57 AM
ooops...sorry for late post i didn't saw the thread in here :rolleyes:

thx for welcome mk!

i'm now also running the tiny key counter...nice little thing :)

dc projects which aren't using cpu time are alway nice to go with :)

lets do some activity...