Windows Vista

[LAURENU2]

So any body know about the new Windows Vista OS?

Should we upgrade? Or Not?

Whats better about it, or whats Not?

Can I take over the World with it, Or Not

[Merlin45]

Dont know myself, but the upgrade to Vista for me is going for free.

The computer I bought was supposed to have it, but it wasnt released yet. So I just had to send in a copy of my reciept and they sending it to me for free.


I too would like to know what the hype is about too.

Or is it just a improvement over WinXP?

Maybe they have the bugs out so it doesnt have to be patched as much as the rest of MS OS's do.:jester:

Hopefully it doesnt turn into a upgrade like ME did:swear:

Well, keeping an open mind. If and when I get it I will post.

[IronBits]

I would wait until at least the 1st SP before making any decisions.
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=+not+to+install+Windows+Vista&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

[LAURENU2]

I guess I will wait then The 89.99 price tag from microcenter did seem inviting:cheers:

[PCZ]

If you are going to purchase vista beware the OEM deals.

Yes they are much cheaper than retail but you run the risk of not being able to activate a second or third time.
Vista is hyper sensitive to hardware changes.

With the Retail versions you will be able to get re activation codes without
to much trouble.
Try reactiving an OEM version and you will have a hard time getting the code.

Lauren

Vista doesn't have that much to offer over XP.
It certainly is pretty though with the Aero desktop enabled.

Some features are extremely annoying, UAC for one.
UAC is user account authorisation and boy is it a PITA.
Sure you can disable it but then the Security Centre nags you about it.
If you disable the Security Centre then another equally annoying program nags you about the Security Centre being disabled !!

If you have a spare PC then give it a trial run but i strongly recommend that you don't upgrade any machine you currently use.

I have to get familiar with it as folks i will be supporting are sure to be using it :bang:

[Fozzie]

make sure you have 2gig of RAM.

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2007/01/23/countdown_to_windows_vista_uk/

[Digital Parasite]

I don't think there is any reason to upgrade your crunching machines to Vista. They will need more disk space and RAM to run and may be a bit slower.

If you have a desktop system that you use all the time for your applications then it might be worthwhile. It think MS is setting up a test drive site for Vista so you can see what it is like before buying a copy.

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

2Gb of ram well that's me ruled out oh and for the Aero Glass interface the OEM versions I don't think have it as they'll be the "Vista basic".
Want Aero Glass do you.. Think of it this way if Vista basic is a boat load of money, the "Aero Glass" look requires another boats worth of cash (or there abouts). I'll wait until someone at EL Reg (http://www.theregister.co.uk) does a review on it. There is apprently a "Are you Ready for Vista" test thing on the MS site - was reading an EL Reg article about vista and the link was on there. All i will say is this "Do you want your PC to run the OS or the OS to run your PC"
SP1 is due in like 6 months and no new FS either that's for the next version of windows due 2010 or whenever.
If have nice fast processor + loads of RAM + loads of HDD space + top notch graphics card (with latest drivers) + the mobo has Vista compatible drivers then GO for it but HD-DVD + Blu Ray are well what's the word for it "GIMP'D" on it some features don't work but then again that's just the overzelous DRM CRAP we now have to put up with..

[Sleepsalot]

Just my thoughts.
1)Vista is a resource hog. 2) It is way to expensive. 3) It doesn't have any type of proven track record. 4) It took 2 years or more to get XP stable.

I get vista free with my MS partners program software pack and I have no plan to use it any time soon.

Wayne

[the-mk]

All the others said the reasons why I don't install vista on my computer!
It would run on a Core 2 Duo E6300 with 2 GB of RAM and 400 GB HDD and a nVidia GeForce 7600GS. But I would not do it :D

Maybe in a few years, when I don't get any updates on XP, but then I think I could switch to linux :) It offers 90% of the things I'd like to do (surfing, mailing, chatting, mp3, videos, ...) and linux has a nice improvment over the last few years and is FREE
:thumbs:
:cheers:

[Chinasaur]

Read the ClickWrap

Restrictive DRM
Granting permission to M$ to remotely disable/uninstall apps it doesn't like.

Follow IronBits advice and wait till the dust settles and the true nature of this Beast from Redmond™ is known.

:cheers:

[Sleepsalot]

I have 10 licenses for Vista Enterprise upgrade. From MS Partners program Also 10 licenses Office 2007 most likely won't be using them any time soon.
Wayne

[Shish]

I`m with IB.:thumbs:
All new Micro$ software uses more resources than the previous version and although I upgraded straight away with 98, ME,2000, it was only frustration with ME that got me to 2000 and then it was at least a year till 2000 got some of the bugs out.
I did put a free upgrade on 2 computers in here to try Vista out but I took it off after a month because it was a resource hog even with ram, disk etc upgrades and problems with vid cards and displays etc. They also ripped out most of the features I really wanted such as the new disk file system and forced upgrade of a lot of hardware to get the real resources hog "Aero" to work at all.
The story is the same with Office 2007. Outlook is OK but I really hate that damn floating ribbon and having to load converters on for some of the files it has saved in Word etc. if I`m using another computer and even then it frequently refuses to save or access files.
I have a company licence if I want it but I definitely won`t be upgrading antime soon to either.
New technology yes, new Micro$ software, no for definite. Wait til the dust settles and then maybe I`ll spend a month of Sundays getting all the computers sorted to our liking and reasonable bug free. I`m stuck at home anyway so I don`t have any spare time, unlike when I was working :rotfl:

[Paratima]

The release of Vista has moved me to stockpile a couple of extra OEM disks of XP Pro, just for new boxen that I may build. Of course, if they're strictly for DC, they get Linux. If I have to run Photoshop on them, they've got to be M$. I'd rather use XP, now that it's stable, than waste time trying to figure out why THAT driver won't run on Vista.

$300-400 + upgrade all my hardware just to buy another bug fix for NT? :rotfl:

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

But, But, BUT!!!! It's more user friendly - it's more secure - that ribbon thing IS the future....
Dear Bill,
WHAT ****ING PLANET ARE YOU AND THE REDMOND BOYS ON???
Im gonna have your Doctor check you over see what DRUGS you is on, cause you have to be on something.....
Sorry I begruded the XP update, 98se still runs on 2 of my machine, I don't use them as work machines even so I did manage to regularly get this machine when it was running 98se to be okay for like 3-4 days constant till I had to reboot due to the "resource" leak becoming a problem.
I had one running ZA Pro, my USB modem, a DC Project & Kerio WinRoute Pro that ran for 32 days (then the timer reset) only had to reboot it due to WinRoute FINALLY not clearing the DNS cache and me not being able to surf gotta love it...

Shish -> WinME is a DOWN GRADE from 98se :P even 95 was better (lol)

[IronBits]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37394

ONE OF THE most damning condemnations of the shiny DRM infection masquerading as an OS is on Microsoft's own site, its paid for list of reasons why Vista roX0rz or something. It is really a good laugh.

[LAURENU2]

I guess Bok Has to find a way to turn this Smiley :thumbs: up side down:rotfl:

[Paratima]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37394

ONE OF THE most damning condemnations of the shiny DRM infection masquerading as an OS is on Microsoft's own site, its paid for list of reasons why Vista roX0rz or something. It is really a good laugh.

It has become apparent to some of us, Mr. Bits, that you have what can only be called an "attitude problem". :Pokes:

:eek:

[Shish]

It has become apparent to some of us, Mr. Bits, that you have what can only be called an "attitude problem". :Pokes:

:eek:
No, like the rest of us, he`s been fighting with the "garage software company`s" bugfixware for too long :rotfl:
Yesh,a nd thats not mispelt cos it`s my first drinking night in quite a while, I had a client who just upgraded from WFW 3.11 a year or so ago and that was in a legal office with 9 machines. It worked, it cost nowt, and the boss saw no reason to pay thousands per year for something that took a year to fettle and that everyone knew how to fix from the 120 year old secretary (his daughter?) to the office cat. I actually still have the original disks he was running somewhere in this tip of an office and the hard drives (twin 40Mb and 120Mb....wow such luxury) and carcase of one of the otherwise dos systems which ran WP, filing, database and everything the modern legal office actually needs. Think it was an Elonex if I remember correctly and an old server with rows and rows of those dinky little 8Mbit ramsticks that were among the fastest fuses in the world if you dared touch them.
progress shmogress, just more wages for the support companies and another few billion for Gates to give away to avoid paying proper taxes on it.

[LAURENU2]

It has become apparent to some of us, Mr. Bits, that you have what can only be called an "attitude problem". :Pokes:

:eek:
If your looking for attitude problems look at our leader BUSH:bonk:
IB was just posting a link to someones posted thoughts about what vista had to offer

[meep]

Oooff - Negative and rather Flamey thread detected !!!

Just to add some counter balance, I have been playing with Vista for a little while, and this morning have installed Vista Ultimate OEM on my main home pc along with Office 2007... I think it is pretty good, I like lots of the new features, I had no "driver" issues, it is faster than XP was before & at a glance it is hogging no more of my systems resources than XP did.

To expand a little:

My home pc is not cutting edge, it has hardware components from all over the shop, bluetooth keyboard and mouse, funky pci cards etc, ALL of them installed automatically. It even picked up my Raided primary disk and used it, something XP cannot do without a driver and some prompting. Also it installed in under 30 minutes from booting from DVD to entering in my password...

PCZ - UAC can be disabled if do not like it, but you will find that for a "simple home user" it does provide benefits, for an advanced user a quick trip into your local machines policy will stop it popping up.

Wayne - expensive? £122 for Ultimate OEM, that is not expensive - something likely to still be installed on my home pc in 3 years time.

The "OEM worries" are not true, so you will have a problem reinstalling it for the 3rd time and then activating it... quite right, but a phone call and a quick challenge response and you will be good to go.

I could go on, and before anyone says, I am not a M$ bitch, I simply think that all of the bad press is a little OTT, put simply, there is no alternative OS I would even consider....

[Paratima]

:rotfl: :jester: :lmao:

"WFW 3.11"

I had to dig through a pile of old manuals just to remember what that stood for! Even found a set of floppies for it!! :eek:

Every now & then, I get a call for help from someone running W95 and think, "NOT a first adopter!" But Workgroups? That's pretty intense! :looney:

Naw, I was just poking Mr. Bits to see if he'd poke back. :Pokes: Just a "Hey, you still there?" kind of thing. See my previous post, above.

How I *actually* feel about Micro$oft (and our "Leader" Mr. Bush if it comes to that) is state secret, not to be revealed without authorization from Vice-Emperor Cheney, if he can be found.

Meep - no problems here. If you don't want anyone to get your goat, don't tell 'em where you keep it.

[Shish]

I`ve come across quite a few small companies and `shops still quite happy with what they know and trust and works for them as in does the job. A very large organisation I worked for had such a mix of server and desktops that they employed around twice the support staff they needed just to keep up with it all and didn`t trust the "new fangled" Win 2K server until they got IBM`d and then were in chaos for a year till some of the dust settled and had EXTRA staff (from IBM of course:) ) to sort out the problems. They were warned by the people who worked there and the IT supremos all lost their jobs for being so stupid so some justice came out of it.
Anyway, I have also run the betas etc of Vista and I do actually like it. It is fast and not necessarily a hog but most of us have learnt from bitter experience that such complex software as an OS is, is not the best thing to install anytime soon. Not accusing anybody of being a Micro$ bhoy and I do actually prefer to run M$ os but their track record ain`t the best and just to get it out, they`ve had to do without some of the most touted bits. I`ve also had a go at the BBC in the UK about them tying their new download and replay service to M$ on which they say they`ve allowed the use of Real Player.... my comments on THAT were apparently unprintable. The DRM marches on :scared:
XP has taken sometime to settle in on my machines and some of the ones I look after and is now stable enough that a kids machine from DHell now runs for several months without asking for a reinstall so I`m just not in any hurry to spend valuable time sorting out several machines or trying to bugfix others for other people when I`m not comfortable in Vista`s use yet. Mebbe I ain`t a candidate for MVP or whatever but I do like to occasionally know what I`m talking about before taking on some responsibility and I`ve been converted to the view of many big companies of leaving well alone till the dust settles, especially where M$ is concerned. I don`t think a lot of big companies will be making the jump anytime soon, despite what M$ is saying in their sales drive.
I`m not frightened to use it at home just developing the caution of age and a lack of time and maybe inclination. Sometimes in life, your priorities change a bit :cheers:

[PCZ]

Meep

Do some more resarch on the OEM reactivation issue.
MS has stated they wont reactivate if you significantly change the hardware.
Change MB for example.

OEM Licences are for System Builders not Joe Public and i find it surprising that so many shops are selling them.

I will say it again, if you buy an OEM version don't come crying when you can't get it reactivated.
You have been warned.

[IronBits]

Windows Vista Performance Guide
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2917

Windows XP vs. Vista: The Benchmark Rundown
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/

[LAURENU2]

Meep

Do some more resarch on the OEM reactivation issue.
MS has stated they wont reactivate if you significantly change the hardware.
Change MB for example.

OEM Licences are for System Builders not Joe Public and i find it surprising that so many shops are selling them.

I will say it again, if you buy an OEM version don't come crying when you can't get it reactivated.
You have been warned.
Yes the same thing happened to me with a copy of XP when it was first released:swear:

[Paratima]

Jeeeeeeez, that Anandtech article is LONG! It's a bloody book!

Anyhow, after wading through the whole thing, I think I'm going to be staying with XP for quite a while. Photoshop CS2, soon to be CS3, is where I'm at, workwise, and it doesn't look like anything good happening there. At least not without another couple gigs of RAM. Interesting though, that Vista can pull such a big benefit from using flash memory. An unusual development, to say the least.

I guess Vista will make some people happy, at least after SP1. I think I'll wait. :smoking:

Thanks for the post, IB.

[GHOST]

i installed vista ultimate couple weeks ago. i had no driver issues.

it is sluggish, it automatically asks you if it is ok to make every move. i disabled some of this, but still, you start to do something and a window comes up asking permission to continue. besides that it is still sluggish.

it is prettier.

most important i do fold@home, vista was slowing my folding at least 20% then killing it with early wu ends.

my box had a rating of 5, which is very good. the bottleneck was my x2 3600 @2375 mhz.
other components were just under 6.

took it off last night. i'll put it back with dual boot. i read you must put xp on first then install vista for dual boot.

so much for vistas unbeatable security
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39679

[IronBits]

I firmly believe M$ is going the way of the dodo bird.
I have joined the ever growing Apple crowd and purchased a shiny new Mac Pro Quad Xeon with a 30" monitor, which runs my favorite OS, UNIX.
Vista is a piece of crap, and jamming it down everyone's throat by not allowing XP to be sold past this December was my last straw.
Windows 2000 was their best OS ever. It's too bad they were never able to release anything beside beta software, especially for an OS, and I see the popluation finally beginning to wake up and see how rediculous this is (patch Tuesday) and not wanting to put up with it any longer and looking for an alternative. Let us not forget to mention the plethora of 3rd party software that was created to try to keep 'Windows' from not crashing, optimised and trouble free, as well as all the additional IT staff that are required just to try to keep it working...

[magnav0x]

I'd have to agree with Ironbits. I was pretty excited about Vista for a while....then I installed it. A hacked up version of OSX runs better on my Thinkpad than Vista does! Now if someone would just hack together some drivers for my 200BG wireless card for OSX. I'd actually buy a Mac if I wasn't so worryed about the company I'm working for going out of business.

BTW Targetbutt, I'm still running that 3200+ 64bit proc :cheers:

[IronBits]

http://www.whitedust.net/news/3984/United_States_Government_Online_Watchdogs?_Part_of_the_war_on_terror?.../



After installing all of my usual apps on Vista I was impressed to see most everything was 100% backward compatible. I expected much of my software to be rendered incompatible. Out of everything I've tried to run on it - 99% produce excellent results in both loading time and performance as compared with those same apps running under XP. Improved support against malware, spyware, and trojans - complete with a user rights management system that a seasoned Linux user could appreciate. All these positive aspects and more, and then.....

ALERT!

After running Vista for only a few days - with a complete love for the new platform the first sign of trouble erupted. I began noticing latency on my home network connection - so I booted my port sniffing software and networking tools to see what was happening. What I found was foundation shaking. The two images below show graphical depictions of what has and IS trying to connect to my computer even in an idle state;

DoD Network Information Center(Department of Defense)

United Nations Development Program(Seems to correlate to the parent branch of the U.N.
InformaticsDivision)

Halliburton Company(We all know these guys)

[Paratima]

Oh dear. Site now closed.

[LAURENU2]

I have a stupid question and did not want to make a new thread just for it
In all my years :hiya: I still do not know was the Scroll Lock is used for:confused:
What is it used for, or why is it there:bang: ?

All these Questions and so Little time to find enlightenment

[Bok]

Not a lot these days...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_lock

[LAURENU2]

Thanks Bok:thumbs:

YA thinking back I seem to remember I used it in DOS to stop line text
But I never used it in a windows platform

[Paratima]

Just as an aside, sort of, to this thread. I've recently had requests from several people who either (a) didn't realize that they were getting Vista on their new Pride & Joy or (b) didn't realize how insufferable it really is. (Are you SURE you want to do that?)

Anyway, a little side business saving folks' stuff to a USB drive, scouring every trace of Vista off their systems and installing a fresh new copy of XP-SP2. Glad I bought a 5-pack a couple of months ago! What a great system! :rotfl:

And what a POS Vista is!

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

Uninstalling "Windows Vista"....
Are you sure you wish this to allow this program to run...
"NO" "CANCEL".....
:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Paratima]

Yeah, the screams are heart-rending. But that doesn't even slow me down! :lmao:

[Mustard]

I firmly believe M$ is going the way of the dodo bird.

Vista is a piece of crap, and jamming it down everyone's throat by not allowing XP to be sold past this December was my last straw.


Amen brother!

[LAURENU2]

Microsoft is quietly telling PC makers they can offer a Windows XP "downgrade" to customers buying systems preloaded with Vista.
Image: Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program

Fri Sep 21 12:11:00 PDT 2007 | Read full story

http://ct.news.com.com/clicks?t=40188315-02976a44495a851bcf6503113a6d2258-bf&s=5&fs=0

[Paratima]

That is rich! That is too effin' funny.

Thanks a ton for that linky, Lauren. :cheers:

[IronBits]

Interesting note:

The program applies only to Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions, and it is up to PC makers to decide how, if at all, they want to make XP available. Fujitsu has been among the most aggressive, starting last month to include an XP disc in the box with its laptops and tablets.
Although it's the same page as before, it comes without 'clickage baggage' and is the direct link to the article ...
http://www.news.com/The-XP-alternative-for-Vista-PCs/2100-1016_3-6209481.html (http://www.news.com/The-XP-alternative-for-Vista-PCs/2100-1016_3-6209481.html?tag=nefd.lede)

[IronBits]

I forget where I just saw this :bang:
else I would give credit, you can google it ;)

Basically, Vista tries to manage the NIC too much... try this from a command prompt.
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled

Dunno what it actually does, but it was suggested so I did this as well.
netsh interface tcp set global rss=disabled

Indeed, the web pages seem to have a snappier feeling when browsing.
caveat-emptor (sp?) or something like that.

[Bok]

I'll give it a go...

networking is a PIA under vista. I just wish I could figure out how to get the Cisco VPN client working ok...

I got aclosed beta version of it working for a while, but now it just refuses to, no amount of unistall, wipe registry, reinstall can get it to work now :(

On the road, from my laptop, I have to use GotoMyPC to get to a windows XP machine at home and VPN to clients from there.

and no, I can't get XP running on my laptop, no network drivers available for it :( I'm going to try XP another time under VM..

Bok

[Paratima]

And Bill keeps on making more money than he can give away...

[LAURENU2]

I thought Gates sold MS and steeped down as Admin

[Paratima]

Didn't say he was in charge anymore, just still making $$$! :D

Bill Gates' Net Worth Page (http://evan.snew.com/ecgi/bgnw.cgi)

As the saying goes, "He could lose your entire net worth at poker and still like the guy who won it."

[LAURENU2]

Didn't say he was in charge anymore, just still making $$$! :D
."

Bill has only 877,499,336 shares, that represents only 8.20% of Microsoft.:bonk:

[Paratima]

:lmao: "only"?

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

:lmao: "only"?

runs a tap and hack and moves a few million shares his way..

[IronBits]

I forget where I just saw this :bang:
http://apcmag.com/7167/eliminate_vistas_network_bottlenecks :)