What is the neediest project?

[jasong]

Let's say you have one computer. I'm not going to give specs, but we're going to assume it's powerful enough and has available any OS that could possibly be needed for any DC project out there.

Now, ignoring points and competition, what project would benefit the most from having a single computer added to it? Or, put another way, given a specific amount of processing power, what project needs it the most?

Alternately, what projects need to send their users elsewhere, to "spread the love."?

[alpha]

This seems like a bit of a strange question.

No reasonably sized project is going to benefit greatly from having a single extra machine contributing. Having said that, if a thousand people contribute, each with a single computer, it would have a noticable effect. Like here (http://stats.free-dc.org/new/teamstats.php?proj=rah&team=Electronic+Sports+League+%28ESL%29).

I'm not sure what your last sentence means. If you're having trouble deciding what project to contribute to, it has to be whatever you consider to be most worthy of your electricity and time. I don't feel guilty about the extra electricity my computers are using because I'm crunching for science and as far as I'm concerned, there is no more worthy cause.

[Marky-UK]

what project would benefit the most from having a single computer added to it?
Statistically, that's the project with the fewest number of computers already on it. Your one computer will make a bigger impact that way.

Probably just best to pick a project that has a personal interest/connection with you.

[jasong]

As far as sending users elsewhere, I think Folding@Home people should have a good look at projects like Rosetta, Einstein@home, Nanohive@home, and a few others which I can't think of at the moment. Another project which really needs to send it's users elsewhere, temporarily, is Riesel Sieve. They've sieved to an insanely high level considering that they're only at about n=2.7M.

The neediest project, IMAO, is the Odd Perfect Number search. They don't have statistics, but it seems that my rather old Linux box is contributed at least 25% of the labor going to the Most Wanted numbers. Truly pitiful.

[alpha]

Are you suggesting that Folding@Home is somehow not producing useful results? If not, why would their contributors want to move to another project?

How are odd perfect numbers useful?

[jasong]

Are you suggesting that Folding@Home is somehow not producing useful results? If not, why would their contributors want to move to another project?

How are odd perfect numbers useful?
I'm not saying they're not producing useful results, I'm saying there's a lot of important discoveries to make in other areas, and when the PS3 port was added, they got a TON of additional power. But nobody ever knows quite where a really important scientific discovery will be made, so it's good to hedge your bets.

Plus, having less than the equivalent of 10 two-year-old computers crunching a relatively well-known problem is just sad. Riesel Sieve has thousands of computers, and most other math projects are much better represented than the Odd Perfect Number Search. I just think it would be good for it to have about 5-10 times as much power as it does now.

[alpha]

I really don't understand where you are going with all of this. People contribute to Folding@home because it is a good cause, and has a chance of making important scientific discoveries. For that reason, it is going to rank highly in people's minds when deciding which project to run (especially people recently affected by loss of a family member/friend). Are you saying people shouldn't contribute to F@H just in case they don't make an important discovery this month/year/decade? The more contributors, the quicker the work gets done and presumably discoveries come about sooner.

As for the odd perfect number search:


I hadn't heard of perfect numbers before.
I hadn't heard of odd perfect number before.
I can't find it on distributedcomputing.info.
It isn't straightforward to become a participant and get started.
It looks like you need some advance math knowledge to understand what is going on and what needs to be done.
No stats.
"Welcome. Feel free to poke around. But we're not really ready to open yet."I'm not trying to put the project down, but with the above in mind are you really surprised that there is a lack of participants?

[jasong]

I really don't understand where you are going with all of this. People contribute to Folding@home because it is a good cause, and has a chance of making important scientific discoveries. For that reason, it is going to rank highly in people's minds when deciding which project to run (especially people recently affected by loss of a family member/friend). Are you saying people shouldn't contribute to F@H just in case they don't make an important discovery this month/year/decade? The more contributors, the quicker the work gets done and presumably discoveries come about sooner.
I guess I can sympathize with people who have lost a loved one, that's a good point. I may have let the fact that the bigger I perceive a project to be, the less likely am to crunch it cloud my judgment.

Okay, if we can't agree on Folding@Home, what about Seti@Home? A program created to examine white noise that has a ton of people crunching it. I guess my real issue is that a lot of these people may not even be aware of the choices they have in terms of projects, and there's no guarantee that another project couldn't benefit more from the power. There's a lot of good science going on in other areas involving Distributed Computing, and outside of distributedcomputing.info, it's fairly difficult to get a comprehensive overview of what's available. We could probably triple available power overnight if CNN or Fox News would dedicate an hour to explaining the concept.


As for the odd perfect number search:


I hadn't heard of perfect numbers before.
I hadn't heard of odd perfect number before.
I can't find it on distributedcomputing.info.
It isn't straightforward to become a participant and get started.
It looks like you need some advance math knowledge to understand what is going on and what needs to be done.
No stats.
"Welcome. Feel free to poke around. But we're not really ready to open yet."I'm not trying to put the project down, but with the above in mind are you really surprised that there is a lack of participants?
That's true. It's been that way for a long time. To be honest, the guy involved stated on Mersenne Forum that he isn't prepared for a large influx of users to the project. That being said, the main part of the project has been running for a year or two, just without any word of mouth to get more users.

I guess the two reasons I like the project are (1) I find the project idea really appealing, it's a simple concept that you could spend years doing research on, and (2) It's got so few users that my one Linux box makes a HUGE dent in terms of progress. In terms of #2, if the long-winded status page of all the active GIMPS exponents was about a fifth as long, I'd probably love that project, so my geeky ego is a big influence.

[alpha]

I may have let the fact that the bigger I perceive a project to be, the less likely am to crunch it cloud my judgment.
Less likely? Why?


Okay, if we can't agree on Folding@Home, what about Seti@Home? A program created to examine white noise that has a ton of people crunching it. I guess my real issue is that a lot of these people may not even be aware of the choices they have in terms of projects, and there's no guarantee that another project couldn't benefit more from the power.
Whether or not Seti is worthwhile is up to the participant but I agree that lack of awareness is an issue.


There's a lot of good science going on in other areas involving Distributed Computing, and outside of distributedcomputing.info, it's fairly difficult to get a comprehensive overview of what's available. We could probably triple available power overnight if CNN or Fox News would dedicate an hour to explaining the concept.
A great point to make here is probably the PS3 F@H client as mentioned earlier. I'm betting lots of people that weren't contributing to the project would have signed their PS3 up, even if only for a brief period. I know this to be true at least on a small scale because I was at a friends house and spotted the F@H client when he was flipping through the PS3 menu system (AFAIK he knows nothing about distributed computing). This would prove that ease of use is a huge factor, so if we could somehow slipstream distributed computing into everyday life even more so, it might attract more people.

Usually the downsides are enough to turn people off, IME: extra electricity usage (more expensive bills, global warming), extra heat and babysitting the client. Perhaps if it were approached in the correct way, "Your computer could help cure cancer and you don't even have to do anything!" it could help.


I guess the two reasons I like the project are (1) I find the project idea really appealing, it's a simple concept that you could spend years doing research on, and (2) It's got so few users that my one Linux box makes a HUGE dent in terms of progress. In terms of #2, if the long-winded status page of all the active GIMPS exponents was about a fifth as long, I'd probably love that project, so my geeky ego is a big influence.
I like that too. :) Climbing up a small project quickly with relatively little power is great fun, and if the project is worthwhile that's even better. So I'm still unsure: why do we want to know if there is an odd perfect number? For the sake of discovery? Just curious.

[jasong]

So I'm still unsure: why do we want to know if there is an odd perfect number? For the sake of discovery? Just curious.
Are you familiar with Mr. Silverman on Mersenne Forum? To say the man has a caustic personality is a massive understatement. One of the things he insists upon is that he is absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, certain that there are no odd perfect numbers. This is despite the fact that, while the known restrictions on an odd perfect number are continuously evolving, nobody has even come close to proving that they are nonexistent.

If your least favorite person claimed DPAD was a stupid project, I bet you'd get a hankering(sp?) for crunching that very project, right?

[jasong]

I'd like to nix the idea of OPN being the neediest project. After reading my fellow crunchers opinion of Rosetta@home(a BOINC project), I've decided that's the neediest project. It could have all the computing power in the world, and I'd still call it the neediest project.

LET'S CRUNCH SOME PROTEINS!!!

(Too bad my Linux box doesn't want to let the animations work)

[alpha]

I'll be throwing everything at Rosetta when OGR-25 finishes. I've got some ground to make up. :scared:

Edit: animations only steal precious folding time anyway!

[LAURENU2]

Edit: animations only steal precious folding time anyway!but:lmao: but:rotfl:your right :rock:

[jasong]

Edit: animations only steal precious folding time anyway!
I only run the screensaver when I'm actually there to stare it.

Rosetta animations tend to hypnotize me a bit.