Hardware recommendations

[paleseptember]

Hello one and all!

I am currently not-completely-poor, so I thought I'd give my computer a little bit of an upgrade. This is what I've got at the moment:

Abit AA8XE-3rd eye (http://www2.abit.com.tw/page/au/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=AA8XE-3rd+Eye&fMTYPE=LGA775) motherboard (Intel 925XE Based LGA775 ATX Mainboard)
Intel Pentium 4 (supports HT) model 640 (L2 2MB, 3.20GHz, FSB 800MHz)
2x512 DDR2 RAM at 533MHz (I think)
NVidia GeForce 6600GT PCIe
in a Antec Sonata case
plus two SATA HDDs (need a new one, run out of space recently!), optical drives, etc.

I'm kinda aiming at the best bang-for-buck territory. So, I'm guessing that a new CPU is the obviously place to start. I'm a little confused, but if I get a new Intel dual-core, will I need to upgrade my motherboard? The intel website is confusing the life out of me on this point. (I'm guessing I'd need a new board :/ )

And if a new CPU is going to necessitate a new board, should I go down the Intel or AMD road?

Any advice, recommendations, whatever, will be greatly appreciated. I'm in Australia, but I think the prices on computer parts are pretty much standard from what I can tell :confused:

Thanks in advance :]

[Fozzie]

Core 2 Quad 6600
2 gig DDR2 800

There's an XFX mobo based on the nforce650 ultra that's a good price too.

[jasong]

I would HIGHLY advise waiting a few days to see how the first AMD quad-core situation pans out. If I were a betting man, I still wouldn't touch a bet having to do with AMD quad-cores, but I'm still very interested to see the way things actually stack up.

I predict we'll have some solid benchmark information to look at within about the next 72 hours. That's assuming this release is the real thing, and they don't come up with still ANOTHER reason to drag things along.

Fingers crossed.

[GHOST]

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-023105.htm


For this reason, processor upgrade information is specific to a motherboard, and it must come from the motherboard or system manufacturer. This is also true for BIOS update information. It is important to confirm compatibility with the frequency, voltage, and stepping between the processor and motherboard, and to see if a BIOS update is necessary to support a faster or different processor.

Older motherboards may not meet the electrical and mechanical requirements for newer processors. It is necessary to verify the supported processors with the manufacturer of your PC or third-party motherboard. If that information is not available, it is possible the board is not validated for newer processors or that the manufacturer does not support processor upgrades.

It is always a good idea to verify processor compatibility with the motherboard manufacturer prior to upgrading your processor.

i looked at abit site and did not see a new bios that would help.

looks like you would need a new board.

go slow- prices only drop and chips get better.

[jasong]

At this point, I have found exactly one news story talking about benchmarks. I forget which one they used. I'm pretty sure it was one of the more common ones. (sorry :( )

According to the benchmark, done on a 1.6GHz quad-core Opteron(codenamed Barcelona), and a quad-core 2.4GHz Xeon, the Xeon is 58% faster. So clock-for-clock(this means adjusting the numbers to show what things would look like if they were at the same GHz speed) they are very similar.

[PCZ]

Don't bother waiting for the new AMD's.
Core2 is where it's at.
They are proven performers and more importantly cheap and widely available.

Jasong

If barcelona has similar performance clock for clock than core 2 it means disaster for AMD.
AMD has always relied on there CPU's doing more work per clock cycle than Intel CPU's.
I don't think that having Native QUAD is going to be the magic pill either.

Intel has a lot of clock speed in reserve even on the current 65nm chips.
With 45nm Penryns coming shortly they will be able to push up clock speeds even higher.

Barcelona is going to have to be very 'special'.

The lack of proper reviews is also very worrying.
Intel had a good chip with the Core 2 and they showed it to the world a long time before release.

AMD haven't done this so one can only conclude it isn't all that.

[jasong]

Um, PCZ, have you looked at some of the prices for the Barcelona chip? Unless I'm reading it wrong, Amazon.com is selling the cpu for about $108. That's $27 per 2.4GHz cpu core. That's pretty damn good in my book.

[Fozzie]

on your meds :rotfl:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6194022.html

[PCZ]

$27 per core :)
Then you woke up :jester:

First Barcelonas will be at least ten times that.

[jasong]

I wasn't able to find the article again. It was actually an ad in the article, but the same ad showed up on pages from 2 on up. I'm definitely confused about what I was looking at the time.

What the hell was I looking at, then? This is going to drive me nuts every time I'm reminded of it for the next couple weeks.

[PCZ]

Perhaps you were looking at an advert for the current AMD dual cores.
There quite cheap at the moment.

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103751&CMP=KNC-overturesmx&ATT=product"

[jasong]

Yeah. I must've seen the 2.4GHz number and had a brain fart that said,"2.4GHz. AHA! Quad-core," since the quad-core I have now is 2.4GHz.

[jasong]

$27 per core :)
Then you woke up :jester:

First Barcelonas will be at least ten times that.
3 and a third. Linkie. (http://www.8anet.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=4842&step=4)

[IronBits]

But wait! There is a new AMD TRIPLE core Phenom :D
http://www.hothardware.com/News/AMD_TripleCore_Phenoms_Announced/

[Paratima]

I just built a box with the 6000 X2, right at the sweet spot, pricewise.
Link = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773

[paleseptember]

Just an update: Am still eyeing off the Intel Q6600 (though I need to figure out what G0 versus B3 stepping means - apparently it's a big deal).

Am shopping around for prices at the moment. This is one of those time I curse that I live in Australia - most of the price comparison sites don't deal with the Land of Oz, and a lot of the online shops won't ship outside of America.

[PCZ]

The G0 steppings run cooler use less power and overclock better.
What's not to like.

Of course Penryn will be better still :)

Oh yes the tri core.
I feel for AMD i really do.

[Digital Parasite]

Oh yes the tri core.
I feel for AMD i really do.

I love Intel CEO's comment when asked about the Tri-Core something like, "We like to think that our customers would benefit most from all cores being fully functional in our products..."

Ouch!

[cwhyl]

I love Intel CEO's comment when asked about the Tri-Core something like, "We like to think that our customers would benefit most from all cores being fully functional in our products..."

Ouch!

My c2d doesn't use both cores properly when running two Prime95 LL tests, there is a penalty of about 17%.
Guess it's the shared L2 cache or something?
Haven't tried a quad.

Edit: when I run an LL test I pair it wih an Einstein@Home WU that mainly runs in the L1 cache and don't affect any bandwithing things, the same story is for Climate.

[Digital Parasite]

My c2d doesn't use both cores properly when running two Prime95 LL tests, there is a penalty of about 17%.
Guess it's the shared L2 cache or something?
Haven't tried a quad.

With P95, you are probably seeing the memory bus saturated. Doing an LL test requires a lot of data going around on the bus if it can't all fit into the cache. We all know that Intel's bus isn't that great. A quad core would probably just make it worse with 4 cores competing on the bus. A lot of people will run 1 LL test and 1 factoring so that the workload is different and makes more efficient use of both cores (assuming you want to do some factoring).

[PCZ]

Agreed all the available memory bandwith is getting used up creating contention.
This happens on all SMP machines.
Optimized apps such as P95 create a lot of memery IO activity.

Modern CPU's are capable of data IO far in excess of any available memory technology.
Or perhaps more accurately affordable mass producable memory bus tech.

In an ideal world the memory bus would be running at the same speed as the CPU but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

If memory serves the last x86 CPU's that ran the memory bus at the same speed as the core were the 486 DX's.
The DX2 introduced the multiplier which we all use today

Early Pentiums the 60 and 66 also ran in sync with the memory bus but all later models used a multiplier.

Caching can mask the problem to a certain degree but the only real solution is an advancement in memory technology so that we can have 1:1 memory to CPU again.
Can't see this happening any time soon though.

[Fozzie]

Quad core heaven :thumbs:

A late birthday present to myself. :cheers:

It is up and running and crunching APS@Home

[em99010pepe]

Wait for me...I will enter next Monday.....

Carlos

[LAURENU2]

Well I have quad racks does that count:lmao:
2X X2's per shelf

[Fozzie]

it won't be too long before you'll be converting the x2 fleet over to phenoms, Core2Quads and Barcelonas.

Cut that leccy bill down and improve your power.

[LAURENU2]

it won't be too long before you'll be converting the x2 fleet over to phenoms, Core2Quads and Barcelonas.

Cut that leccy bill down and improve your power.
hahaha I have been converting my fleet for the past 10 years It never stops:bang:

[Digital Parasite]

hahaha I have been converting my fleet for the past 10 years It never stops:bang:

Hehehe, if the power requirements go down, that will just give you an excuse to buy even more boxes to bring it back up to the red line again... :thumbs:

[LAURENU2]

:idea:I guess I could always bring DSL to my warehouse:thumbs: I think I could fit in a hundred or so Nodes

:jester: Does Anyone Know How Many Nodes It Would Take To Take Over The World:jester:

[Shish]

If your warehouse needs heating Lauren that's as good an excuse as any :harhar:.
In the time of the Seti wars, we had several pubs heated by old boards until a police raid when the Building Inspector said the bare boards were dangerous ( I countered they were all low voltage and legal an don't argue with a real engineer....) and the police confiscated all the gear cos they thought we were spies/hackers/porn kings after seeing the wifi cards and the dish to get a connection to the nearest BT hotspot. Man that was funny, and they even rang up Berkely cos they and their experts didn't know what Seti or DC was. :rotfl:

[Stratcat]

^^

Haha!

Anthill! :cheers:

I remember the Anthill confiscation well, but this is the first time I ever knew of the *full* details (only remember the equipment being in custody, and it's "bail" and return in a state of limbo).

Funny one Shish....hilarious stuff! :rotfl:

Anyway, hope all is finding you well.

~ Strat ~

</end_thread_hijack

[Shish]

Hi Strat.
OK, but recovering from a relapse and battling UK summer weather and suppliers and planners to get new bungalow finished before Xmas.
Now resigned to be retired from large scale DC and business.
Cheers an Beers mate, nice to see you around.:thumbs::cheers:

[paleseptember]

Update: Spur of the moment impulse spending has resulted in:

Intel Q6600 G0 steping
Intel DP35DP board
640 MB 8800GTS graphics card (that was unexpected)
SilverStone Zeus 750W PSU (that was very expected, but apparently the quadcore + the 8800gts would have crippled my 380W that came with the Sonata II case)
2GB DDR2 800MHz RAM
22" widescreen LCD (very unexpected)
New HDD

Ouch! basically!

What's worse is that I pulled my old computer apart, put everything together, then realised that the motherboard doesn't have PS/2 peripheral inputs. And I don't have a USB mouse. This is not a good thing to realise at 5pm on a Sunday night. Needless to say I was seriously unimpressed.

Annnnnd! I'm not sure (got confused with MS and intel websites), but will windoze xp pro run happily on the 64-bit quadcore? (I certainly hope so!)

And, if I hook up my old HDD with windows and everything else installed in the new system, will it be happy? Or am I looking at a fresh install scenario?

Thanks everyone for your assistance :) Just a few more silly questions!

[Digital Parasite]

Update: Spur of the moment impulse spending has resulted in:

Annnnnd! I'm not sure (got confused with MS and intel websites), but will windoze xp pro run happily on the 64-bit quadcore? (I certainly hope so!)

And, if I hook up my old HDD with windows and everything else installed in the new system, will it be happy? Or am I looking at a fresh install scenario?

The CPUs are 64bit capable, not 64bit only so XP Pro shouldn't have any problems.

XP will probably barf with all the new hardware. I think IronBits or someone here posted a thread on how to update XP with a motherboard change. So you will have to jump through some loops but you might not need to re-install everything. Of course re-installing XP from scratch every once in a while is actually a very good thing to clean out all the crap that has built up on the system so you might want to anyways.

[paleseptember]

Of course re-installing XP from scratch every once in a while is actually a very good thing to clean out all the crap that has built up on the system so you might want to anyways.


Cool :) I shouldn't have too many hassles with revalidation and whatever?

I'll go out tomorrow and get a new mouse (argh!) and report back if I hit any major snags :bang:

I'm most impressed that I managed to put the old system back together in the meanwhile. It seems to be running a bit hotter than previously, probably plugged something in wrong :S

[IronBits]

With Windows 2000, you need to install the new mobo drivers before you shut it down and begin the swap out.
With XP, it will chug along and get er done and come up, but you will still need to install the drivers for the mobo in the end.
You will either get lucky and it will validate automatically, or you will be forced to call that 1-800 number and go thru the 36 numbers by keypad.
If you do call, it makes you answer some questions, just remember to say NO to the 'have you changed your motherboard recently' question else it will say you need to buy another copy of XP. :looney:
I'd be pissed if all I had was a stupid USB mouse, not good when in the middle of a good gaming frag session, when the computer struggles to do AI or video stuff and starts lagging the mouse. I'll steer clear of that mobo alright.
Congrats on all the new toys! I'm sure you will have lots of fun :D

[paleseptember]

Update:

Got everything put together, bought a USB mouse. Windoze will get the Setup, and not recognise the SATA drives. Format a fresh harddrive, repeat, same result.

Sobbed a little.

Got Ubuntu installed (all drivers req'd were automatically loaded with the Live CD). It stayed happy briefly. Then refused to get past the "loading kernel" stage.

Sobbed a lot at this point.

Nothing further worked. Have called in the computer doctors. With any luck they will make everything happy and good and I can get back to dc'ing.

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

Hmm you got the boot order set right haven't you?
Got everything set up in the bios correctly, etc.
Seen that windows / linux installs fine then refuses to get past stage "x" due to a silly misconfig in the bios.

[paleseptember]

The (expletives deleted) mobo doesn't have ps/2 peripheral ports, and didn't seem to have usb legacy support enabled in the BIOS. To get into the BIOS, I need my keyboard working. To get the keyboard working, I need to get into the BIOS.

Yossarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_22) would have been proud.

[GHOST]

exactly what board do you have?

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

some boards don't have PS/2 ports built in but have a plug-in that does the same thing maybe - depends on
the board...
Nice mind you some boards have windows based utils to tweak the bios I know, I know it's wrong and IF you **** it up well hmmm where is that CMOS clear..

Scratch that...
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/software/iia/index.htm < intel has a tool for it apprently. Nice Windows GUI bios tweak tool might get it to work USB in dos :D

[paleseptember]

The board is an Intel DP35DP.

Thanks for the link gopher_yarrowzoo, looks... useful :)

[GHOST]

http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-023466.htm#usbinbios

USB Devices Do Not Work in DOS Mode
If USB Legacy Support is disabled in the BIOS, you will not be able to use your USB mouse or keyboard in any of the following situations:

* Running your computer in Safe mode.
* Using a Windows Startup menu.
* Starting your computer in MS-DOS mode (instead of opening a MS-DOS session from Windows).
* Starting your computer from a floppy disk or leaving a floppy disk in the drive when you turn on or restart your computer.
* Windows "blue screen" errors that ask you to "Press any key to continue".
* Responding to ScanDisk and other messages during the start-up sequence.
* Editing or upgrading the BIOS.
* Entering a BIOS password.

Check for and enable USB Legacy Support:

1. Attach a PS/2 keyboard to the computer and boot the system.
2. Enter BIOS Setup by pressing [F2] during boot.
3. Go to the Advanced > USB Configuration menu.
4. Set Legacy USB Support to Enabled. (May be listed as USB Legacy)
5. Exit and save changes [F10].

like gopher said, try a usb/ps2 adapter. try clearing cmos. or send the board back. i see in intels bios update page there have been boot and drive recognition problems, which you can't work on till you get an interface.

or maybe one of these chingadaras
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124045

good luck

[paleseptember]

GHOST: Thanks for the link, I've seen that page before. The INTEL DP35DP doesn't have PS/2 ports, so you can't attach a PS/2 keyboard. I've been meaning to email Intel support about that... :/

Am considering buy a PS/2 port card (thanks for the linky!), or trying to return the board. Am not liking my chances on that.

*shrug*