Formula 1 - 2008

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

Well the other thread was getting a bit long so I thought I'd start a new one for this year - any chance any posts made in the other thread about this year can be moved or not..
I watched the new way they have of deciding the pole looks interesting and I suppose a good way for things to be tested out, I liked the fact that Alonso wasn't in the top 10...
I've not seen the race yet (I don't do early mornings on the weekend unless I HAVE to).

[the-mk]

I've set the alarm to 5:00 am, but when it rang I switched it off and continoued sleeping :D
I'v watched the replay in the forenoon and not all drivers made it to the finish :D
seems to be pretty exciting until the season finishes...

[alpha]

Awesome race, very exciting to watch. I would've preferred a different winner but it is still early in the season yet. :)

Raikkonen is looking impressive in that Ferrari. Might need to keep an eye on him again this season. We saw how much faster the Mclarens are than the Renaults so it completely proves what an incredible performance it was by Alonso, especially in the closing laps.

[the-mk]

technical defects are coming back to Ferrari... defective fuel pump or something like that during qualifyign, engine defect during race... some things we didn't see for some years at Ferrari :-/ they are missing Ross Brawn and Jean Todt :D

I'm courious about Malaysia next sunday - a better time, since it is at about 7:30 am UTC+2 - a so called breakfast grand prix :D

:cheers:

[Shish]

Getting to be very interesting.
No traction control should throw some wild cards in tho' Hamilton should be used to it after karting and so should Raikkonenen after driving at home but it gets real tricky when you get a bit too eager applying too much boot trying to otake through a corner or coming out of a slow one. Even braking going in might catch a few overshooting or going in too deep without engine braking and trac control. Gonna make for an interesting season with some oddball results. Strange that Ferrari should have this continuing problem with fuel pressurisation showing up. Should have been easy sorted I'd think and not had much of it before.
Anyway, race was v good but Hamilton didn't really have any opposition tho' he def is a brill driver. Nice to see Red Bull improving and Jensen and Honda coming on. Should see a few more of the minnows in the points and some exciting duels I reckon.

[alpha]

Well Malaysia was a good race. I got up early for the qualifying and race to watch them both live - definitely worth it. :)

Interesting to see how much trouble Lewis had with Webber. Not sure if that is a testament to Red Bull's improvements since last year or what a good driver Webber can be. Would've been nice to have seen Alonso with more time to give him some trouble at the end.

Unfortunate for Massa, not sure what happened there. Looks like he just gave it too much through that corner. If he could've kept plodding along he should've been gifted second place and some very welcome points.

[the-mk]

2 Finns on the podium: Räikkönen and Kovalainen, and a new face: Kubica!

Red Bull? -> Adrian Newey :D

[Shish]

Some nice action in the Malaysian. Raikkonen did very good, Hamilton had bad luck which cost him a podium and Massa copped a boo boo whoopsie with forgetting about NO trac con. Three abreast into a corner is rarely seen but typical of the action going on.

[the-mk]

Today Räikkönen won the grand prix of Barcelona in Spain! What a pity that I slept the whole GP and woke up at the award ceremony...

[the-mk]

next race is Silverstone in GB and Felipe Massa is currently leading... should be a nice Grand Prix! I'm looking forward to it!

[alpha]

Yeah, and apparently the Ferraris like Silverstone so it might be another bad one for Hamilton. I like the way this season is shaping up. :)

I actually visited the track last Wednesday for a tyre testing day, it's only just over 100 miles from where I live. It was great, we got to see a driver from each team out on the track! We were able to roam about the stands on one side of the track and get very close. The cars are incredibly noisy! I can post some photos if any of you guys are interested enough.

[the-mk]

posting photos would be great!!!

[em99010pepe]

The cars are incredibly noisy!

Yes they are! I remember last year when RedBull brought their F1 car to the Oporto Circuit. Living 500 m away from the track I could listen to the sound of the engine. When I got 3 m near the track I just went :looney:. It's an amazing sound, so loud, I could even listen to the gear shift!!!

[alpha]

http://s309.photobucket.com/albums/kk378/ahpla_/Silverstone%20testing/?albumview=grid

Hopefully, the above link should work. Most of the good close-ups of the cars are in the second half of the album.

It was three-day testing, so we didn't know which drivers we would see. On the day, we saw:

Ferrari - Felipe Massa
McLaren - Heikki Kovalainen
BMW - Robert Kubica
Renault - Nelson Piquet
Williams - Nico Rosberg
Red Bull - Mark Webber
Toyota - Jarno Trulli
Toro Rosso - Sebastian Vettel
Honda - Jenson Button
Force India - Giancarlo Fisichella

We could roam from around turn 10 all the way down to turn 17. That is roughly how the photos should progress too, with the last few just showing the pit lane. IIRC, the best lap of the day was a 1:20.0 by Kovalainen (though we left 40 minutes early).

[the-mk]

nice pictures! you must have a fast digi-cam to take mostly so clear pictures from that fast cars, or did they drive only warm-up-laps? :D

[alpha]

They were all race pace laps. The camera is my girlfriends Fujifilm Finepix S5700. Seems to be a pretty nice camera (got good reviews for price), but I'm no photographer so those images were all taken with default settings and no tripod.

edit: having said that, most of the best ones were taken on the apex of slow corners, intentionally to get a crisp image.

[the-mk]

long time - no post...

I partially saw the GP in Belgium today in TV (in the middle of a GP I'm usually sleeping :D ):
If Kimi did take more care, he would have some points added... but Nick did a nice catchup with the intermediate tires at the end and finished third! :D

[the-mk]

That is not fair!! Lewis won the race, but now they put him on third place (after adding 25 second time penalty to his race-time), reason: he shall have used a chicane to overtake/shorten his way/avoid a collision with Kimi, after that he let pass Kimi - so that there is no advantage for Lewis. And after that he overtook Kimi correctly...

That this decision is not correct to me!

[Fozzie]

stewards are after new Ferraris for Christmas.

That is absolute bollocks, I imagine the McLaren appeal will succeeed as it was obvious Lewis allowed Kimi back past before overtaking him.

[Helix_Von_Smelix]

can't beleive that ferrari even appealed in the first place. Lewis beat Kimi fair and square twice. Mclaren can't loose this one. OR as people have said before Ferrai get special treatment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M

But Ferrari/shumi can do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

[Shish]

I replayed it several times and it seems, from the official comments of the stewards, that they are penalising Lewis for taking unfair advantage of the safe route and not letting Kimi completely past before the 2nd line was passed.
How they figure that, when Lewis was clearly a nose ahead into the corner and Kimi almost forced a crash (if Lewis hadn't taken the safety road), then let him past and went round behind Kimi, tho' still accelerating, is a mystery to me and most people who took the trouble to check the video and the rulebook. See http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4116127,00.html (http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4116127,00.html)
and others for the full press conference as well.

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

FIA = Ferrari something something now does it..
I bet even Kimi is saying this is stupid, he was let back and then fairly overtaken

[Shish]

Stewards at track for FIA which represents (I want a new Ferrari from) the Ferrari International Appreciation club.:dunno::lmao::D

[the-mk]

Torro Rosso did a nice job today in Monza! First pole position for Sebastian Vettel and fourth place for Sebastien Bourdais. Two or three years ago Torro Rosso was Minardi, who made marvelous Pasta and they didn't hurt anyone :D Now they are really competitive!

Kimi and Lewis are starting from 14th and 15th place, we will see who is kicking who out in the first corner :D

I think that will be a race we may not miss :cheers:

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

Yeah would be funny as heck if they took each other off, indeed I remember minardi and I was like WHY do they even race they rarely finished in the top 10 but I suppose they did it to prove a point, we may not have the 100 million + the top teams have but we are here...

[the-mk]

Sebastian Vettel!! Pole position and now won the race! Great job Torro Rosso! :D :cheers:

[Shish]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke. And Gerhard Berger and the Minardi Minnows have finally cracked it after years of living on enthusiasm and dreams. Good on them for sure. Godelpme, even I'm using the dreaded "for sure" phrase now. Those Furrari ites have a lot to answer for.:rotfl:

[alpha]

I'm only just back off holiday but I had the Belgian and Italian races and qualifying ready to watch when I got home (see darmeth.co.uk). Vettel sure did a great job, totally deserved the win.

Regarding Lewis's penalty, even though I'm biased because I hate the guy, I'll clarify what I interpreted the offence to be. The regulation states that you can not gain an advantage by cutting a corner. I know it is said that if you give the place back it is OK, but in this instance, if Lewis had driven around the chicane, he would not have been close enough to Kimi to have tried for the overtake before the next corner. Therefore, by cutting the chicane he gained an advantage by being able to push for an overtake on the next corner. As all the driver opinions seemed to be: he should have waited until a subsequent corner before attempting to re-overtake. Even Nico Rosberg, Lewis's good friend, gave the opinion that he should have waited after giving the place back.

Having said all that, I don't like watching a podium ceremony and celebrations, only for it all to be void later. I'd prefer if it was announced that the stewards were investigating beforehand, and delaying celebrations until a decision was made.

[the-mk]

from that point of view the decision of the stewards should be OK... however, the same people were on the podium during the ceremony, but just in the wrong order :D

BTW: why do you hate Lewis? That guy is from the same country as you are (or am I wrong).

[alpha]

His arrogant and over-confident attitude stinks. He talks like he is a legend and a top class driver when the reality is that he lucked into a fast car right from the start. For comparison, look at where Kovalainen came last year in a Renault and compare it with his performance this season in a McLaren. If it was Lewis in the Renault last year we wouldn't all be raving about what a good driver he is.

I'm ashamed that we have someone like that representing our country and there is a huge number of people that share my opinion, despite his apparent popularity here.

If we're supposed to be behind our fellow countrymen I'd much rather support Jenson Button and I'd like to see what he could do behind the wheel of a McLaren. Having said that, I don't support a driver because of their nationality.

Anyway, that's all just my opinion. Looking forward to the next race in Singapore - a new track and the first ever night race.

[the-mk]

Do you know when the Singapore race starts in (UTC timezone if possible)?

[alpha]

Wikipedia says 12:00 UTC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season#2008_race_schedule).

[the-mk]

do they also do their practice sessions during the night? what about the qualifying? from tv schedule it seems to be later than the race next day...

[alpha]

Here, the qualifying coverage starts at 14:10 UTC, so the first session probably begins at 15:00 UTC or so. Three hours later than the race.

Singapore is UTC+8, so:

12:00 UTC = 20:00 UTC+8
15:00 UTC = 23:00 UTC+8

www.itv-f1.com says "Don't miss F1's first night race this weekend, starting with Friday practice from noon online." so Friday practice starts at 12:00 UTC too I guess.

[alpha]

It turns out Hamilton's appeal to the chicane decision was denied. The decision was not susceptible to appeal because it was effectively a drive through penalty, but since those can't be served within the last five laps, the time penalty was added instead.



Article 16.3 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations provides as follows:

The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an incident:

a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and rejoin the race without stopping.

b) A 10-second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least 10 seconds and then rejoin the race.

c) A drop of 10 grid positions at the driver’s next event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.

Paragraph 5 of Article 152 of the International Sporting Code provides as follows:

Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certain penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations where this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal.

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

Dang it well it does put a bit of a "downer" on his 2nd season..
I might watch the qualifying no idea where I'll be during the race or if I'll be sobar :P

[the-mk]

I totally missed the win of Fernando Alonso... Massa was driving through the pit-lane with the fuel-tube :D then I read Kimi was crashing in the last four laps into the wall :cry: only Hamilton was able to save 6 points for his team and the world champion ship... there were three safety-car phases? Darn, and i was walking through the beautiful nature of Austria with my family...

[gopher_yarrowzoo]

all i will say is I've seen the photos I bet those guys feel like right muppets ....

[Shish]

If you missed it go to the F1 site or other and find it. Man that race was a corker. Mebbe natural justice for Hamilton? Dunno, but I do feel sorry for Felipe. I got the closeups which showed the green "go" light was on on his dash and off he went! Poor Kimi got caught up in the backlash and held up, then they just left Massa stopped at the end of the pits!!!! All good news for Fernando after his disaster in qualifying but Lewis did do a lot of work to get his points and pulled off some good otakes. Thoroughly enjoyed it as the leaders swapped back and forth due to safety cars and other madcap incidents.:clap:

[alpha]

Well it's 4:30am. I hope this is worth sacrificing sleep. :)

Go Massa!

[alpha]

Well I won't say what happened just in case anybody here wants to watch a re-run or doesn't know the result yet.

All I will say is that it was an awesome race and definitely one to watch. I'll be watching the re-run later this afternoon.

[the-mk]

The first two or three laps were funny, but then I fell asleep again :D I need to watch a re-run later this day...

[the-mk]

today they are driving in China... currently leading is Hamilton, but the race is not over!

[alpha]

Boring race. Boring winner.

[em99010pepe]

His arrogant and over-confident attitude stinks. He talks like he is a legend and a top class driver when the reality is that he lucked into a fast car right from the start. For comparison, look at where Kovalainen came last year in a Renault and compare it with his performance this season in a McLaren. If it was Lewis in the Renault last year we wouldn't all be raving about what a good driver he is.

I'm ashamed that we have someone like that representing our country and there is a huge number of people that share my opinion, despite his apparent popularity here.

If we're supposed to be behind our fellow countrymen I'd much rather support Jenson Button and I'd like to see what he could do behind the wheel of a McLaren. Having said that, I don't support a driver because of their nationality.

Anyway, that's all just my opinion. Looking forward to the next race in Singapore - a new track and the first ever night race.

Sounds like racism to me.

[the-mk]

Hamilton is not everybody's darling... some of my friends don't like him either, but not because of his skin color, more because of his character! so I can exclude racism.

Take a look at Jaques Villeneuve 1996: he started in the winning team of Williams Renault and was missing the championsship with some points --> that was because he had a good car...

but that is just my 2 cent...

[alpha]

Sounds like racism to me.

Maybe I don't understand your sense of humour and this is a joke. Clearly, nothing I said in the post you quoted was racist.

As I already said, I don't care what nationality (or colour) the drivers are - these factors do not make me choose my favourite. My support is with the driver that I enjoy watching the most and whose on and off-track attitude I like best.

[the-mk]

now we have the first black skinned formula one world champion...
what a pitty that Timo Glock got slower the last lap, while Sebastian Vettel did a great job :D

its over... a lot of people wanted another champion... Lewis won one point leading...

we'll see what happens next year

[em99010pepe]

now we have the first black skinned formula one world champion...


Is that a problem to you?

[alpha]

em99010pepe, why are you so quick to jump on people about race or skin colour here?

It was an incredibly exciting race, and I agree with the-mk, it was a shame Timo Glock couldn't have been a tiny bit faster on those dry tyres. It was literally two corners away from being a different world champion. Massa was the man for the job today and totally dominated in every way. Another great job by Alonso as well (look at how many points he has over the last 4 or 5 races).

Oh well, with new regulations next year I don't think we can even speculate about who will be on top. It should be very interesting with teams like BMW and Honda saying they having been focusing on the 2009 car all year! Also, the broadcaster here in the UK changes next season to one without commercials. Uninterrupted racing - the way it should be! :thumbs:

[em99010pepe]

alpha, the problem is the way you all write about it, a pejorative way.

[zombie67]

alpha, the problem is the way you all write about it, a pejorative way.

I see no problem. It appears that you are looking for problems where none really exist.

[alpha]

Actually, I never mentioned the colour of his skin. And yet you accused me of being racist. There's a fundamental flaw in your logic!

Of course, I put him down and speak derogatorily of him but that's because I don't like him as a person or a driver. I'm allowed to have that opinion and there's nothing racist about it.

Also, I'm sure the-mk was only confirming that Lewis is the first black winner of the championship.

Anyway, what is everyone's opinion of the new KERS system which teams can use next year? I'm not sure if it is supposed to increase fuel economy or increase power? Either way, it seems like a good idea to me, and surely something we should be looking at on road cars..?

[the-mk]

Is that a problem to you?

If it would be a problem for me I would have written it in a different way...
--> so: no, it is not a problem for me (to be clear)! and I'm sorry if I offended someone with expressing it that way.

alpha, I have two choices watching a F1 race:
our national TV broadcaster has no advertisement, but such a bad commentator... the TV broadcaster from our neighbor country Germany is much better, but every 25 minutes 5 minutes ads...

BTW: when does the 2009 season start: end of March! a long time to wait...

[em99010pepe]

The Hydraulic KERS idea is to reuse the vehicle's kinetic energy by conducting pressurized hydraulic fluid into an accumulator during vehicle deceleration, and conducting the pressurized fluid back into the drive system during vehicle acceleration. (copy of a forum)

I really don't know if it is a good idea for F1 Racing.