Name Change + other

[whilden@ars]

Okay a few things!

First of all Good luck with your new adventure, I am not sure how your recruitment will come from newbies but I do see you guys recruiting DC regulars from Ars :( and so on.

I appreciate all the work you guys have put forth on Ars teams and good luck doing the same over here, I am also glad that you guys havent been strangers over at the Ars boards.

Okay first of all, I thinked you guys goofed big time by setting up teams right from the get go and should have stuck with a DC forum for awhile....anyways that is done and over.

I like the idea of this forum and I would love to bring my ideas and knowledge to help other DC'rs no matter the team. But I would like my name changed from whilden to whilden@ars (like jomor).

Have a great day - mike

[mr_mann]

geez whilden you act like its the end of ARS :D its not :D
we are just a good bunch of pure DC'ers thats all

[ColinT]

I've done little advertising so far. Waiting for the web site to be functional. Then I will get after those newbies:)

[horus2@ars]

ColinT:

I've seen some of your "advertising" around the web and all I can say is I hope it gets ignored like this (http://www.tech-report.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=56&forum=9&8) rather lame shameless attempt to stop anyone else forming a DC team that might take users from your beloved Free-DC.

[ColinT]

I hope you feel better now after getting that off your chest.

[mr_mann]

horus your ungrateful
its people like you that make me just want to beat someone
if it wasnt for colin and some of the guys over here ARS wouldnt
be anywhere i think you should just go sit in ur room and think
about that untill you are ready to join us in the real world then
stay there

[Berg.the.Red]

Originally posted by horus2@ars
ColinT:
this (http://www.tech-report.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=56&forum=9&8) rather lame shameless attempt ...
... Gerbil in training ?????!!!!!! ... :D

[[H]Rockhammer]

I gotta say that was a pretty shameless move posting something like that in a thread started by Dr. Damage himself about TR forming a DC team. Not something I would have felt right about doing.

[Berg.the.Red]

concidering the post was pretty much blown over - looks like "no-harm, no-foul" to me ...

and he IS the "Minister of Propaganda" ... poor guys just doing his job.
... you come over here to learn something/contribute, or to rip on colin ??!! :D

[mr_mann]

they all came over to be dumb !
if you cant say anything good then dont say a DAMN thing
if i were your guy's moms i would have slapped you already

[[H]Rockhammer]

I came over here to see what was up with Free-DC. I've made no secret of my opinion in my previous posts. I'll state it again so there is no confusion:

A website devoted to DC without teams would have been a good idea. I think the free-dc teams are a bad idea.

I also think the founders of free-dc are being disingenuous when they say they don't want to recruit from other teams. Colin, I think your post at TR proves that point.

I would think that the free-dc founders would like to see an open, honest, and rational discussion of these issues. If not, and if dissenting voices aren't welcomed I'll go away.

[mr_mann]

your just jeslous cause your afraid we might be a worth while team and might take a few users from your team

[Dyyryath]

No, I'm quite happy to hear dissenting opinions. It's one of the things that I'd like to see us do better than other sites. All opinions (so long as they are stated with intelligent conversation in mind) are welcome here.

In response to your post, let me give you my opinion: That particular post was probably a bit over-zealous.

In Colin's defense, however, he'd been running around all night posting all over the place. He had a couple of posts that went to places that either already had DC teams that Colin wasn't aware of, or to places that really didn't welcome the recruiting attempt under any circumstances. I don't think these were attempts to "steal" users from any other team on Colin's part. I think he simply got a little too quick with the cut & paste after having done it so many times. ;)

I know Colin too well to believe he was actively trying to do anything underhanded.

As for being our being disingenous, I can honestly say that when we decided to do this, my involvement pretty much hinged on the agreement that we wouldn't be trying to take users from other teams. I wouldn't be here if anyone had even suggested such a thing.

Now, does this mean that we're going to try to dissuade people coming over from other teams? That we won't welcome them with open arms? Certainly not. No one accuses [H]ardOCP or ArsTechnica of "stealing" users when someone from another team decides to switch allegiences of their own free will. Free-DC is no different. If you want to come, we don't really care whether you've come from another team, or from nowhere at all. ;)

You've also stated that you don't think we should have started our own teams. Would you elaborate on why not? I'm honestly curious about that...

[mr_mann]

you talk to much dyy[tab]

[[H]Rockhammer]

Okay, I may have over generalized when I made the comment about "the founders of free-dc". I haven't seen any indications that anyone but Colin was doing this sort of recruitment. I suppose I was trying not to make my posting a personal attack.

But you gotta admit that Colin's posting in the TR forum (and possibly those in some of the other fora) does not square with his stated policy of not recruiting from other teams.

Here is the direct quote from the TR posting:



Scott,

I might have a ready made solution for you. A few of us broke away from Ars and HOCP and formed an umbrella community geared towards DC newbies.

You are welcome to use our services in whatever way you choose.

We have a forum, teams for everything, site, IRC network. And this is only 5 days old:)

Site: http://www.free-dc.org
Forum: http://www.free-dc.org/forum

Your loyal reader...


That does not look too cut-and-pastish to me. The first line in Scott's opening post on this thread was "I'd like to form a TR team....". You can see how this would make me doubt the sincerity of his stated goals for the free-dc site. Hence the comment about the founders being disingenuous. To the extent that I may have offended you, or the other founders of free-dc (except Colin), by my previous comments, I apologize.

Why was it a good idea except for the teams? Simple. Free-dc without teams could have provided a valuable service as a clearing house for information regarding all the various DC projects. It could have been a place to meet with people that have like interests and share tips and tricks without concern for team rivalries. Take the free-dc teams out of the equation and I would have no problem with Colin's post at TR. It would have looked like a sincere offer of help, not an attempt to disuade Scott from forming his own team and recruit TR readers to free-dc.

[Berg.the.Red]

hummm ... i guess i really don't see the "heavy handed recruitment" in:


You are welcome to use our services in whatever way you choose.

as for Free-DC having teams ... their call. i think a few people formed teams on their own. but i DO think having a team without any "affiliation" isn't in-and-of-itself a bad thing. sometimes the [H] vs ARS thing got a little monotinous and tiring. will the teams over here get that way ?? don't know. maybe they will. do i crunch for Free-DC ?? not yet. i'm still on the ARS band-wagon. will i ?? maybe ...

so have the "founders" tried to recruit from other teams ? i personally can't be 100% sure. i'm not really shadowing them to find out. but they HAVE made the point that they're not trying to recruit from any ARS teams. repeatedly as a matter of fact.

[Dyyryath]

I can see where you're coming from with your remarks on Colin's post, though I think it was more a case of Colin trying to offer them an option if they decided that creating their own team was too much work, or they didn't have enough user support to justify the extra work.

While I don't disagree with what I think Colin was trying to do, there is certainly a very fine line to walk there. The perception people get is going to be more important (and potentionally more damaging) than the intent. This is something we are going to have to be very careful of in the future.

The second part of your post regarding Free-DC as a "clearing house of DC information" is interesting. That's a noble goal, and one we'd like to achieve, but it wasn't the primary impetus for Free-DC. We didn't want just a place to talk about DC without team rivalries. We wanted a place to contribute our WUs without outside affiiliations. We wanted a place to get stats, forums, chat, and all the other "infrastructure" pieces that are generally only provided to DC teams through their affiliation with larger non-DC sites.

I'd love for people from all different teams to come here to share with and learn from each other. Everyone is welcome here, whether they are members of a Free-DC team or not. While our not having teams might have made this a little easier to swallow for some people, I'm not sure that I'd consider it a necessity. We've already seen people from other teams here posting and sharing, and hopefully, this trend will continue.

[[H]Rockhammer]

BTR, you put "heavy handed recruitment" in quotes, but I don't think I said that. I would characterize it more as inappropriate and tacky recruitment.

D. I guess I don't really get the whole unaffilliated thing. If I were to join the free-dc team would'nt I be affiliated with free-dc as surely as I am now affiliated with the [H]? If I wanted to be truely unaffilliated, I would DC without joining a team. Help me out here.

[mr_mann]

wow this is getting annoying!

[relic]

Hey Colin...wanna join the [H]orde?

I'll send ya a case of beer. ;) (cheap stuff, not that expensive imported beer)


The preceeding was a shameless recruiting effort by the [H]ardBard himself....

Same goes for Dyy<tab>....I'll even promise to learn how to spell his name. :D


I feel so ashamed.

[mr_mann]

what are you talking bout dyy[tab] is his name :D

is there some other way to spell it?

[Dyyryath]

relic: LOL! :D

[H]Rockhammer: When I say "unaffiliated" I mean unaffiliated with groups outside of DC. For me, I'm a fan of more than one tech site. I have about an equal love of [H]ardOCP and ArsTechnica. I don't particularly like picking one over the other. Now, I don't have to.

My likes for tech reporting really have nothing to do with DC so I'd rather not be on a 'Tech Site' team to participate. ;)

I realize this is just my opinion, and to some people it wouldn't make any difference...

[mr_mann]

thats a good point dyy
we dont have to choice between the two big sites i frequent
so we have a median

[[H]Rockhammer]

Damn Relic, can't you do better than one case of cheap beer for all that fire-power?!? Heck, I'll triple that deal and make it the good stuff if he comes over.:D

I guess we've about beat this topic into the ground by now. I just had to vent 'cause that posting at TR really cheesed me off.
I still can't say I really "get" it, but we've been there before, huh Relic?
:p

[Berg.the.Red]

Originally posted by [H]Rockhammer
BTR, you put "heavy handed recruitment" in quotes, but I don't think I said that. I would characterize it more as inappropriate and tacky recruitment.
... and you probably didn't in those terms. i did. your saying he went over there and tried to recruit people over to Free-DC from some other team. looks like they were discussing forming a team. could Colins post be construed as recruiting ... maybe. inappropo ... maybe. trying to offer some help ... could be. was he as blatant as Relic trying to recruit the two of them for [H] ... doubt it ... :D i heard he put Colin up to the post anyway. so it's all ... ( do i really have to say it ?? ;) )

[ColinT]

I posted the link so they could have some basic information and links on DC. That's all the conversation we need on this.

I believe everyone has said their piece. let's end it here and move on to other atrocities I may or may not have committed