Why You Should Also Run Chessbrain

[Dyyryath]

Let's face it, chessbrain isn't looking to cure disease or come up with new mathematical theories. In fact, it's primarily just distributed computing for the sake of distributed computing. They're trying to see how well they can apply it to computer chess. So why get involved?

Well, here's a couple of reasons:

It's FUN! I've been running it for about a week now. First on one machine to test the client, then on several more, and now one about 18 or 20 boxes. The stats are only updated once a day right now, but I'm going to change that. Hopefully by Friday, I'll have Arachnid providing hourly stats for it. Since it's a SMALL project, there's lots of room to move in the stats, and I like seeing that. ;)
It's painless. I didn't initially get involved because I had no intention of leaving DF for another project, especially one that doesn't do anything to help further medical science. I also didn't want to mess with two projects. Too much hassle, I thought. Well, it turns out that chessbrain not only plays nice with DF, but is absolutely painless. It's only got two files. An executable and a config file to go with it. You stick them somewhere, put your name in the config file, and launch it. No registration, no directories full of supporting files, nothing. Just run it and go. It's also had no affect whatsoever on my DF production, despite that fact that I'm moving up the ranks rapidly. :cool:
We need the help. We're currently in 1st place (aren't we cool? :D), but we're being outproduced by a team a couple of places back. They're really attempting to make a run at us. Based on my experiences with it so far, we should be able to ramp up on this project without really affecting our DF output. Things are slow in DF at the moment anyway, so as long as we make sure we don't let Ars Technica creep up on us here, there's some fun to be had over at chessbrain, too.


If you'd like to give chessbrain a whirl, you need to download and appropriate client from right here (http://www.chessbrain.net/downloads.html). They have versions for Windows, Linux, even FreeBSD. Once you get it, you'll want to edit the cbspn.conf file and add a username for yourself. You don't have to register or anything, just use your email address or make up a name, either will work. Then add FREE-DC for the teamname. Make sure it's all caps, spelled exactly as you see it here. Then launch the client & let her go. You can check our ChessBrain forum (http://www.free-dc.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=46) for more information about monitoring, stats, etc.

I've found this to be an entertaining, breath of fresh air this week, and all without sacrificing my DF production. Maybe you will, too.

[alpha]

Originally posted by Dyyryath
They have versions for Windows, Linux, even FreeBSD.

There is no FreeBSD client. The Linux client does work on FreeBSD under Linux emulation, though. :)

[cygnussphere]

Well there you have it! If any Free-Dcers need any more endorsment then this post I don't know what to tell you?

Thanks Dyy.

Hopefully you throwing in on this project will get it the support we need to hold off the US-D juggernaut.:thumbs:

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

:tempted:

:evil:

:cheers:

[magnav0x]

Not to mention that we already have 4 members in the top 10 for overall production :thumbs: That just means we have room for 6 more :D

[willy1]

22 clients and counting...

It's not nice that multiple clients on multi-CPU PCs only get counted as one client in the Top Machine rataings.

[Dyyryath]

That's good, willy, I'm coming for you! :D

[PCZ]

willy1

I should think that everyone in the top contributers list runs some multi CPU boxes
so dont worry about it.
I have quite a few SMP machines on CB

Just run it on more boxes !!

[QIbHom]

I'm tossing a couple comps on Chessbrain. If they work out, I might try the others I have borged that I have less access to (one on a dial up).

Of course, I'm still running DF.

Hmm...linux client just keeps sitting at "Initialization complete. On stand by...". Wonder if it doesn't like my gcc version, or something. I'll just leave it be for now.

[magnav0x]

QIbHom,

It's suppose to do that. The client only grabs work units when a game is in progress. Once a game begins, you'll see her start kicking around :cool:

[QIbHom]

Ah, thanks, magnav0x. It started up right away on my work comp, so I assumed that was normal. That's what I get for rushing to install, and not reading the web page.

Guess I'm just getting spoked by all the gcc issues going around <g>.

Maybe I'll go install it on the PII laptop. Or, maybe I'll just install LFS on it...choices, choices <g>.

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by PCZ
willy1

I should think that everyone in the top contributers list runs some multi CPU boxes
so dont worry about it.
I have quite a few SMP machines on CB

Just run it on more boxes !!

not me!! :p


i have never messed with a dually :bonk:

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by QIbHom
Guess I'm just getting spoked by all the gcc issues going around How about this one?:


$ ./cbspn
./cbspn: relocation error: ./cbspn: undefined symbol: __builtin_new
$ Sounds like a gcc problem to me (I don't have g++-2.95 installed, basically because it's horribly broken W.R.T. ABI's, and it hasn't bitten me until now...).

Anybody know of a way around it other than getting the real libstdc++ library from g++ 2.95? I could just throw that lib into /usr/local/lib, but that's so not-clean... ;)

[cygnussphere]

Originally posted by bwkaz
How about this one?:


$ ./cbspn
./cbspn: relocation error: ./cbspn: undefined symbol: __builtin_new
$ Sounds like a gcc problem to me (I don't have g++-2.95 installed, basically because it's horribly broken W.R.T. ABI's, and it hasn't bitten me until now...).

Anybody know of a way around it other than getting the real libstdc++ library from g++ 2.95? I could just throw that lib into /usr/local/lib, but that's so not-clean... ;)

I would try posting on the CB forum here (http://www.chessbrain.net/bbs/viewforum.php?f=1) . CJ should be able to answer this.

:tempted:

:evil:

:cheers:

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by cygnussphere
I would try posting on the CB forum here (http://www.chessbrain.net/bbs/viewforum.php?f=1) . CJ should be able to answer this. Nah. It's worked around easily enough (I had a copy of libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 sitting around that I put in /usr/local/lib and symlinked to whatever filename cbspn wanted, then ran ldconfig, and it started up OK).

Even if it isn't "clean", it works, so good enough. I guess.

If I had it my way, everybody would be using ABI-compatible compilers. By which I mean gcc 3.3 -- the gcc team is reportedly saying that 3.3 is The One To Use for a while, because it's compatible with 3.4 so far. Plus you cannot build an NPTL glibc that works right unless your 2.6.0-testX kernel was built with gcc 3.2 or higher (if you use 2.95.X to compile the kernel like the kernel docs say to, you get tons of failures in the NPTL testsuite).

Of course, that's "if I had it my way". So yeah; it probably won't happen... :D

[magnav0x]

For those interested

http://www.chessbrain.net/stats-top-machines-graph.html

I'm sure Dyyranth would be pleased that he is the top Linux contributer in the project already :notworthy

OH yeah, don't forget FoBoT still owns you all in Windows platform...soon :D

EDIT: Turns out Dyyr is one box away from being tied for top Linux contributer

[FoBoT]

check it again after it updates tonight, i should have 7 more winders boxen, to take the lead in # of winders boxen :p

[PCZ]

UM
dont be so sure about that.

got you going !!

I only added 4 nodes today

[FoBoT]

D'oh!

http://www.petersreviews.com/simp03.jpg

ok, don't make me do something crazy :looney:

[magnav0x]

Q: What's funner than watching a competition between Free-DC and US Distributed?
A: Watching a competition amongst Free-DC members :bouncy:

[Dyyryath]

Oh Lord, another way to compete...that's what we really needed. ;)

Guess now I have to enlist more machines. I've got several others that still aren't participating. Of course, the graph is shorting me several machines already. I'm using 19 at the moment (with 4 duals to boot)...

[Dyyryath]

OK, I've added 5 more Linux boxes. I'll add one more tomorrow after I replace a power supply and another one tomorrow night when I go to the office. That should give me a total of 19 Linux boxes and 6 Windows boxes. I'll probably add three or four more Windows boxes over the weekend, provided it plays nicely as a service.

At any rate, this should put me firmly in the lead for Linux boxes. :D

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by PCZ
UM
dont be so sure about that.

got you going !!

I only added 4 nodes today

:moon:

37 to 33 on the winders side! :p

for now.....

[PCZ]

I guess I will have to borg more boxen !!

[JayGee]

Is this thing online only? Seems to be a bit of network activity when I've tried it, but us dialups can't stay online forever like those with broadband :confused:

For the time being, it'll be running whenever I'm online.

[rshepard]

Yes- it is online only. It has to interact with the server constantly, to send and receive jobs.

[jonnyw]

i'm willing to give this a try for Free-DC (Even though I fold for anohter team :D).

The only thing I cant get my head round is how it won't affect folding production.

Does it try to use 100% cpu, or does it just use a bit of cpu every few minutes/hours?

i'll give it a try, but would just like some reassurance (basically as to how it wont affect df production). :)

[pfb]

I've had CB running for around 24 hours on my PCs - and only had ~1hr CPU time...haven't seen much decrease in overall DF scores either...

[jonnyw]

cheers. :)

btw is it best to use the text based client or the one that sits in the system tray?

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by jonnyw
Does it try to use 100% cpu, or does it just use a bit of cpu every few minutes/hours? Mine seems to sit there waiting for ... something, most of the time. I think that "something" is the main node, but I'm not positive. When that "something" happens, it grabs about as much CPU as it can get for a short time (usually less than 30 seconds).

I think that the main server hands out "packets" or something to clients, and they calculate the results and send them back. If your client is waiting for a packet, then it won't use any CPU until it gets one.

Which raises the interesting possibility -- would it be all right to run two clients on the same (single-processor) box, so that one can be calculating while the other is waiting for work? Hmm....

[cygnussphere]

You can also use one of these monitors to get a better idea of what your client has been up to.
peernode monitor (http://www.chessbrain.net/downloads-peernodes.html)

User contributed monitors (http://www.chessbrain.net/downloads-contributed.html)

Cmoc Jar works well.

I have not used the perl based monitors.

:tempted:

:evil:

:cheers:

[pfb]

Originally posted by jonnyw
cheers. :)

btw is it best to use the text based client or the one that sits in the system tray?

I am using the systray version on my work PC as having 2 command windows open was annoying me (just have the GUI with processor=2 and get 2 hidden CB clients running) but all my others have the text client (latest experiemental) which seems slightly faster...

/edit - scratch that...went looking and found some info over at Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=1164252&forumid=1) on how to set it up as a service without using Firedaemon...now running as services on all my Windows boxen

[excaliber]

Question. Im interested in running, but Im behind a NAT firewall. What ports does it use?

[pfb]

Originally posted by excaliber
Question. Im interested in running, but Im behind a NAT firewall. What ports does it use?

AFAIK port 80 (standard web connection)...

[excaliber]

Nice. I've got it setup, and running. Few more questions.

I've set the team to"Free-DC" (without quotes). Is that right, or do i need Brackets, or something similar?

Also, how do i know whether the client is doing something or not? What stats do you all use?

Thanks, hope to help

[pfb]

the team name setting is Free-DC so you should be ok...

as for monitoring, try CB MOC (http://www.blivion.com/cb/cbmoc.html); for stats, try Dyyyryath's hourly stats (http://stats.zerothelement.com/cgi-bin/chessbrain/render-users.pl?team=1)

:)

[excaliber]

Thanks...Didnt know Dyy did Chessbrain stats as well.

So, how often does the client actually do something? I thought it would be saturating my internet line with communication, but it doesnt seem to be doing anything.

Does the client play games, or just train the neural net? Are they scheduled? Does it help make game decisions? THanks. The CB site is very poorly written, it doesnt explain much.

[pfb]

Afaik - the client will analyse a move when a game is in play (although if it takes more than ~30 seconds it will abandon the move) - from experience that is around 10 hours each day...so we are playing a game of chess against another computer programme (although there is the game in Jan against the 61st best chess player in the world)...I find that out of 24 hours, on a good day I would have ~2 hours to CB and on a bad day ~45 mins...so this is a very nice project to have alongside one of the 24/7 ones...

If you look at http://www.chessbrain.net/supernodestats.html, the first chart will show how 'busy' the server is...

A few others may clarify the details :)

(Oh, and welcome to the ChessBrain team :))