Reply With QuoteIt is a cute little bugger. I'm thinking of getting one for my partner's mother, who is a die-hard Mac user.
I'm also thinking it could be an interesting PVR. And that it really needs a Mini Cooper shaped mouse.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
$499.
Put a DVI>VGA connector on this thing...voila. Hardly zero added cost and it will crank the bejeebus out of OGR for less than you could build a comparable AMD cruncher.
I, for one, am going to be after anyone who ever asked me for help to buy one of these.
1. OS X
2. Drop dead simple
3. BSD Inside™
4. No Ad Ware
5. No viruses
6. Apple HW (just works)
7. Apple Support
8. No M$
Here's some math for ya on how price competitive this little baby is -
$450 - Bare minimum mac capable of taking a Dual 1.7Ghz G4 upgrade card
$800 - Dual 1.7Ghz upgrade card
====
$1,250 - 3.4Ghz
$1,500 - Three mini mac's
$70 - 3-port KVM plus DVI adapter
====
$1,570 - 3.7Ghz
Dat ain't bad numbers for what it will do on OGR. My 933 G4 does 1.8T avg. So $1500 buys you 5.4T minimum.
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
It is a cute little bugger. I'm thinking of getting one for my partner's mother, who is a die-hard Mac user.
I'm also thinking it could be an interesting PVR. And that it really needs a Mini Cooper shaped mouse.
I've ordered one of the faster ones to play with. It'll be interesting to see what the OGR numbers look like (still going for that 1 million gnode mark).
I really think it's pretty neat. It's also about time Apple came out with something that people with smaller budgets could purchase. Very nice.
I just wish I could come up with a good reason to buy one. The hardware is neat (as is the OS), but I can't justify spending money on something like this just to 'play' with.
I wouldn't use it for a desktop (already have a FAST Athlon64 for that), wouldn't use it to crunch (I've been trying to get away from having a zillion boxes laying around the house), and I don't do any Apple development work, so that's pretty much out. The OS is neat (I use it at work), but I wouldn't trade my Gentoo for it so...I'm left with a weird desire to get one but absolutely no way to rationalize the purchase.
"So utterly at variance is destiny with all the little plans of men." - H.G. Wells
Yeah, I can't come up with any valid reason to get one of these. I don't have space, don't need more computers, have no use for it. But, the idea of an affordable new Mac...it is just very attractive. Even if the one time I tried to use OS X, the eye candy nearly caused me to toss against a wall.
I've made my 1st ever New Years resolution.
From now on..somebody asks me to fix their computer. I'm telling them to buy a 512MB Mac Mini and call me in a week if you have any problems after that.
I am soooo sick of helping people get rid of scumware, teaching them how to use Anti-virus tools, exhorting them to use a f@#%^&&* firewall, etc. Windows is a tax on anyone smart enough not to run it but dumb enough to help people out time after time.
Was yakking with a buddy who was helping some poor sod with his infected/riddled PC... and I said "ya know..I'm sick of this shite. Fsck em. If they are too stupid to operate a computer, then they deserves to have their disk formatted..."
I'm gettin one of these jobbies - http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/frustrations/388b/
Anyway, this IS the perfect comptuer for those marginally smart enough to know that Windows sucks but not interested in running Linux.
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
And, Chinasaur, it is unix enough that I could set up ssh on my partner's mother's Mini (if we got her one), and do tech support from here, rather than trying to tell her what to do long distance. Especially since she has trouble typing accurately.
Not that I'm sure that is actually an advantage...
An interesting comparison to use on those you might want to see on 'another' OS.
http://www.osviews.com/modules.php?o...rder=0&thold=0
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
OK, the Mini is hooked up and running OGR. Here's a quick benchmark based on my farm:
AMD 1800XP : 11.3 M nodes/s
AMD 2400XP : 14.6 M nodes/s
AMD 2800XP : 15.2 M nodes/s
AMD64 3400 : 18.7 M nodes/s
iMac Mini (1.42Ghz) : 33.29 M nodes/s
At first blush, this little thing kicks butt on OGR at least. I'll have to go grab F@H and see how things look there.
Originally posted by ECL
OK, the Mini is hooked up and running OGR. Here's a quick benchmark based on my farm:
AMD 1800XP : 11.3 M nodes/s
AMD 2400XP : 14.6 M nodes/s
AMD 2800XP : 15.2 M nodes/s
AMD64 3400 : 18.7 M nodes/s
iMac Mini (1.42Ghz) : 33.29 M nodes/s
At first blush, this little thing kicks butt on OGR at least. I'll have to go grab F@H and see how things look there.
You'd get a similar amount on your AMD64 machine if you ran 64bit Linux. Here's a bench of my FX51 under Suse 9.2 Pro 64bit:
[Jan 18 09:38:23 UTC] OGR-P2: Benchmark for core #0 (GARSP 6.0-64)
0.00:00:16.09 [30,145,118 nodes/sec]
Train hard, fight easy
i am going to get one in july
Use the right tool for the right job!
G5 rulez!
I'm on a top 200 today!Code:Rank Participant First Unit Last Unit Days Gnodes 18(+2) Dead J. Dona _|_ [Ukraine RC5] 06-Aug-2000 21-Jan-2005 1630 41,875 Rank Participant First Unit Last Unit Days Gnodes
Rank: 200(+1) 18(+2)
Praises to G5!
wbr, Me. Dead J. Dona \
nice going Death
I'm kind of in the same position as Dyy. it's tempting and OSX looks cool, but I'm pretty happy running Debian and I'm a grad student with no money, so I can't really buy one just to play with.
I even had an opportunity to get a mac, as my professor is buying a cluster of machines for our research (and a new desktop for me), and he asked me if i wanted mac or PC. Alas, all of my work is on linux, and I couldnt come up with a good reason for getting a mac. so it will probably be a Dull (anyone else love Get Fuzzy?) box for me.
on the plus side, i get a new desktop in a new office, and a rack of linux boxes, which, when they arent simulating microprocessors and network cards, will help bring the Borg to victory over the evil species in FAD. (even if they are running (blech) p4s.)
OK, i just read the osviews.com thing that chinasaur posted and I have to take some issue with it.
first, the software. as one of the responders put it, despite the author's arguments about software,
"Nobody buys a Mac to get Marble Blaster Gold and Nanosaur. It's silly to add that to the PC side of things.
The Mac mini may come with iDVD, but you can't use it to burn DVDs unless you order the SuperDrive for $100 more, so there's no sense adding Ulead DVD to the PC system."
maybe some of that software adds value to the package, but how much value depends a lot on the individual. most people who would build their own machines dont need any of that stuff. I certainly don't.
the other issue i have is that it's a P4 system. you can get a sempron 2500+ or an athlon XP 2200+ for $72, and I suspect most people who would DIY would do that, especially if they are build a low-end system like that. The only reason I could think of for a DIYer to build a p4 system is if they are doing encoding or something else the p4 is really good at, and are getting the highest-end p4 in existence. even then an A64 might beat it. i havent seen numbers on that lately.
but there is the convenience factor, which is not to be overlooked.
... so what kind of projects is that PPC architecture good in? is it mostly just the altivec-using stuff?
Last edited by Scoofy12; 01-24-2005 at 02:22 PM.
WOW ! The Mini Mac does almost twice the work of an A64 3400 :shocked:Originally posted by ECL
OK, the Mini is hooked up and running OGR. Here's a quick benchmark based on my farm:
AMD 1800XP : 11.3 M nodes/s
AMD 2400XP : 14.6 M nodes/s
AMD 2800XP : 15.2 M nodes/s
AMD64 3400 : 18.7 M nodes/s
iMac Mini (1.42Ghz) : 33.29 M nodes/s
At first blush, this little thing kicks butt on OGR at least. I'll have to go grab F@H and see how things look there.
Have you run any FAH yet?
G
The dnet code is highly optimized for the G4's Altivec engine..that's why PPC's kick ass there. I don't know of any other project that is as highly optimized for the Velocity engine as RC5/OGR.
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
Originally posted by Georgina
WOW ! The Mini Mac does almost twice the work of an A64 3400 :shocked:
Have you run any FAH yet?
G
I downloaded FAH but haven't really run it. I've really been focused on figuring out compiler issues for a cross-platform project I'm working on. But I'll eventually get a F@H WU through.
well, check http://opendarwin.orgOriginally posted by Scoofy12
I'm kind of in the same position as Dyy. it's tempting and OSX looks cool, but I'm pretty happy running Debian and I'm a grad student with no money, so I can't really buy one just to play with.
I even had an opportunity to get a mac, as my professor is buying a cluster of machines for our research (and a new desktop for me), and he asked me if i wanted mac or PC. Alas, all of my work is on linux, and I couldnt come up with a good reason for getting a mac. so it will probably be a Dull (anyone else love Get Fuzzy?) box for me.
mac os x is a *nix
wbr, Me. Dead J. Dona \
Now I've run it. A Tinker frame takes about 20 minutes on the Mini. The only other F@H client I have is on an XP2800+ (WinXP) and a Tinker frame takes about 5 minutes on that box. I don't know enough about how F@H works to know if there's any way this is a valid comparison.Originally posted by ECL
I downloaded FAH but haven't really run it. I've really been focused on figuring out compiler issues for a cross-platform project I'm working on. But I'll eventually get a F@H WU through.
Were they the same Tinkers? Also, I was snooping around the TeamMacNN forum and I read that the Macs really don't like Tinkers. Gromacs do much better. That may explain the AXP being 4 times faster.Originally posted by ECL
Now I've run it. A Tinker frame takes about 20 minutes on the Mini. The only other F@H client I have is on an XP2800+ (WinXP) and a Tinker frame takes about 5 minutes on that box. I don't know enough about how F@H works to know if there's any way this is a valid comparison.
I don't know anything about the Altivec engine. I'll have to do a little reading.
G
altivec ~= SSE ~= 3DNow
they are what is referred to as SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) instructions. you can search for stuff on there, also Ars's "Hannibal" has great CPU articles http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu.ars
or if you have more specific computer architecture questions, you can ask here. Computer Architecture is kinda one of my areas of expertise.
So the mMini gets 33G/s? The latest 1.7 Ghz upgrade card gets ~39G/s - http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...46#post2384338
The upgrade he installed is $499 (AND on a 100Mhz FSB). The cost of an mMini. If you already have a Macintosh..then upgrade. if not, then get the mMini and enjoy some serious OGR overkill
I'm going for the Dual 1.7 for $699 which should give me ~78G/s out of ONE BOX.
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
Bob Cringely has had some interesting articles of late featuring the mini.
the most recent one is at http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050127.html and there are a couple others in the archive.
for me personally in my mac vs pc choice, it came down to this:
given that i get basically the same money for either platform, what does having a mac buy me over having a pc? from China's original list:
1. OS X
same question applies... what does OSX buy me that linux doesnt have?
2. Drop dead simple
non-issue for me. i'm already an experienced linux user. besides, debian IS drop-dead simple once you have it installed.
3. BSD Inside™
sure, this is good, but no better than linux.
4. No Ad Ware
ditto for linux
5. No viruses
ditto
6. Apple HW (just works)
Dell HW. boring, but also just works.
7. Apple Support
dont really need support. but if i do I also have the advantage that the university IT folks are supporting my HW
see above
8. No M$
i get linux to avoid ms, but i also get windows preinstalled anyway, just in case i should want it.
so its pretty much a wash, other than i get better HW for the buck with the PC (faster proc and RAM, SATA drives, better video card, bigger drive, etc)
now, if we are talking about, say, my wife or my parents, or even someone like me 5 years ago, then the equation changes.
Good points, coming from an experienced Linux user. I am a simple pc/mac user, and graviate towards macs whenever I can, mainly because of the aesthetic quality of the OS, but also the high degree of attention to detail that Apple puts into it's software.
Not to disagree with Scoofy..because..well..he's smarter than me...even if he is from Tenn
BUT!!!!!
1. PPC is a different processor from X86.
2. OS X is superior to Linux in it's ease of maintenance because Apple does a lot of things for the user. **Now many *nix users DON"T want anyone doing anything for them..but many Mac users would rather use their systems than update/upgrade them with apt-get**
3. Comparing OS X to Linux/BSD/or anything else is futile. It is soooo different that you simply acknowledge that they are aimed at different populations and let it be. You simply cannot approach the ease of use of OS X with regards to audio/video with any other platform. And I honestly don't think that's a fanboy response.
4. Cost is ultimately NOT the deciding factor for the mini..It's avoiding the ever-spreading @#$% from the Net that M$ is now going to charge you money to protect you against. It's about the Zen of "Ease of Use" and the simple elegance of good looking hardware.
5. You either get it or you don't.
6. No one can be told what OS X is...they have to see it for themselves"
Pace
7 Oh yea...PPC/Altivec kickson OGR!
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
not so sure about that, but ok.Originally posted by Chinasaur
Not to disagree with Scoofy..because..well..he's smarter than me...even if he is from Tenn
BUT!!!!!
1. PPC is a different processor from X86.
yeah... so? oh, you mean speed comparison. this is true, but even compensating for that you still get more bang for the buck.
2. OS X is superior to Linux in it's ease of maintenance because Apple does a lot of things for the user. **Now many *nix users DON"T want anyone doing anything for them..but many Mac users would rather use their systems than update/upgrade them with apt-get**
what are you implying, that upgrading with apt-get takes work and/or gets in the way of work? not so. i think its probably just the case that your average linux user gets off on always getting new stuff and playing with it, and so this is what they like to do. as you say, OSX is not aimed at the average linux user. what does maintainence consist of, anyway? just getting patches? redhat, MS, and Apple all have auto-update for that.
3. Comparing OS X to Linux/BSD/or anything else is futile. It is soooo different that you simply acknowledge that they are aimed at different populations and let it be. You simply cannot approach the ease of use of OS X with regards to audio/video with any other platform. And I honestly don't think that's a fanboy response.
ok... then why do you make just such a comparison in point 2? you cant have it both ways :P as for audio/video, i wouldnt really know.
4. Cost is ultimately NOT the deciding factor for the mini..It's avoiding the ever-spreading @#$% from the Net that M$ is now going to charge you money to protect you against. It's about the Zen of "Ease of Use" and the simple elegance of good looking hardware.
Zen is anything but easy. at least until you get to the end
OSX is not easier to use than windows, for someone who has used windows for years. they have to learn all new stuff. it maybe easier to use than linux for this person, if you count initial system configuration, etc but apple has the advantage of tight control over the hardware. i dont really care what my hardware looks like. it just lives under my desk.
5. You either get it or you don't.
doesnt sound like a very effective way to convert people to me
6. No one can be told what OS X is...they have to see it for themselves"
maybe so.... i guess linux has the advantage that you can "see it for yourself" without dropping half a grand, minimum.
Pace
New York City??!!
7 Oh yea...PPC/Altivec kicks
true... but Athlon kicks
im not against apple or the mac or OSX... its just not for me in this particular case. for the time being its also not for me as long as its my own money on the table, for my own use.
i might still recommend it for, say, my mom or my wife. but thats a different debate.
Ha! It was only a matter of time.
Just don't do as I did and panic over the mouse/keyboard issue. While I was waiting for my Mini to ship I started to obsess about the strange Mac keys, and would I have trouble plugging a normal Windows keyboard into the thing. Initially, I decided to just risk plugging the thing into my normal KVM switchbox. Apparently the funny Windows-symbol key maps to the funny Apple-symbol key, so I'd presumably be OK. Crisis solved.
Then my sole remaining neuron fired and I remembered how to count. I have an eight-port switchbox, with eight machines plugged into it. A little hard to put nine machines on eight ports. Crisis back on. Since I'd have to put a keyboard on the Mac, I decided to go whole hog and get an official Mac keyboard, instead of grabbing something out of storage. At this point everything started to spiral out of control.
I hiked down to the Apple store and bought a Bluetooth adapter and wireless keyboard. Then I found a spare MS USB trackball (most mice won't work on my stainless-steel desk, and I hate Apple mice with a vengeance anyway). Add a spare LCD monitor and speakers, and suddenly I've got four speakers, three monitors, two keyboards, two trackballs, a mouse and the Mini cluttering up a desk which used to be a zen-like model of dust-free simplicity and concealed cabling.
The practical upshot is that you can use any old keyboard and mouse with the mini. PS/2 to USB converters are cheap and work fine, and a DVI-VGA converter comes in the box, so a Mini can presumably be hooked up to a KVM switch like a normal computer.
Looks like I'll have to part with one of the old machines if I want my desk back. These things just aren't easy.
This guy did a Debian install on the mini.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-power.../msg00095.html
A more direct link than MeerPeer's is http://sowerbutts.com/linux-mac-mini/.
He has good information on the hardware of the Mini, along with a link to a pdf of the innards, and how to get into them. Looks like it is very difficult to do without scratching the case, the RAM isn't too hard to replace, but replacing the (slow) hard drive might be a bit involved.
Not too involved. The mac sites are full of stories of people who have replaced the RAM and HD without scratching the case..just takes a thin putty knife.
Someone has lready overclocked the 1.25 to 1.58
Agent Smith was right!: "I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell! If there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it."
I'm not sure why you would want to go thru all that, just to boast you have linux running on it?
I have heard you can plug the fireware port into your TIVO recorder and the Mac OS finds it instantly...
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000057028826/
Erm, IronBits? Some of us have a fetish for cool hardware, but don't like OS X.
I've not seen OS X yetthus the questions...
I have seen Linux and still not impressed with it's GUI nor the ease of application installs, however, it's great for a Server at init 3
Just looking for answers, before I get my Mac Mini delivered.
I'll probably just use the OS X to learn/see what that's like.
My main goal will be to turn it into a TIVO type appliance with bluetooth wireless keyboard/mouse and hook it up to my 65" HDTV
erm, I mean an OGR cruncher, then an appliance
Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers yet...
I did snag that 22mb .pdf file for later reference tho, thanks!
I'm just not very impressed by software eye candy. Kept ducking every time I moused over something, and it popped up. Haven't tried to live with OS X, though.
I like that I can choose my GUI with Linux (or not use one), and that I can customize it. Of course, every time I get it just the way I want it, something new comes out I have to try <g>.
Plus I like mouse buttons. Funny, since I don't like mice...
Let me know how it goes, IB. I have to set one up for my partner's mother soon. And while I refuse to use a Tivo, the Mini looks like it could be a nifty capping box, with the right stuff hung off it.
The mini doesn't come with a mouse, so any usb mouse you plug in should work.
The Mini is an iMac, which usually means it's got bleeding-edge case design and trailing-edge hardware. This helps keep from cannibalizing sales of the higher-margin PowerMac line. In the case of the Mini, they also need to protect their higher-priced iMac G5. After all, if you could just plug a $500 1.6 GHz G5 Mini into a $250 17-inch LCD, would you pay $1300 for the all-in-one unit? Selling a G4 instead of a G5 in the Mini allows Apple to keep a decent profit margin while opening up a large potential market segment for future exploitation.Originally posted by IronBits
I'll probably get the USB Bluetooth adapter.
The Firewire port is only a 400 and not the latest 800 standard. /me shrugs
I suspect Apple might bring out a Mini G5 at the fall cult meeting, or more likely, next spring. If so, it'll probably have faster Firewire, better graphics and bigger storage. Heat dissipation without noisy fans seems to be a problem for them (no G5 powerbook yet), so if they solve it for notebooks they can probably use the same solution in the Mini. I also wouldn't be terribly surprised to see more A/V ports, if Apple's really trying to go for the media-hub market like everyone says.
HOW-TO: Turn your Mac mini into a media center
Posting Permissions
I'm sick!
