whoa, maybe we don't have to worry so much

check this thread on Ars

linked


all the "big boys" are writing off DF , they don't even mention that Ars finished phase I in first and are now trailing in the #2 spot in phase II , they are only worried about the "big important" DC projects where they are currently # 1

looks like the concensus is the small projects need to be "secondary" to saving the current #1 spots

i am surprised they don't recognize they have , in a way, lost #1 in DF to a tiny team of Spartans! :D

back to reading the thread, its quite long

It's an interesting discussion they're having over there, and it's not entirely unlike the ones that they were having when several of us left to create Free-DC. I understand what they're trying to do, but to be honest, I don't think that they're going to come up with a definitive set of 'guidelines' for project participation that's going to work. It's just not that simple.

Here at Free-DC, we tend to believe that 'everyone should run whatever they want', and it's worked well for us. In fact, despite our steadfast refusal to concentrate on a particular project, in the end, that's pretty much what we've done. While we compete in a bunch of projects, ranking high in some and not so high in others, I'd say the bulk of our members have their eye on Distributed Folding as it's kind of become our unofficial 'flagship' project. We've taken (and held) the number one spot from Ars without ever having to result to making 'guidelines' or telling people what to run. In fact, I think that's precisely why we've done so well.

I think that in the end, if you don't hassle your members and you just try to create a place that everyone enjoys, most of them will try to do whatever seems to be in the best interest of the team. When things start to look dire in Distributed Folding, the troops come to the rescue not because 'they're supposed to', but because they want to. Now that we look threatened in chessbrain, the same thing is happening. You get the word out and let everyone know what's happening and leave it up to them. Around here, your friends inevitably come and help you kick ass, no 'guidelines' required. :thumbs:

I've been lucky enough to have grown up with parents who have an incredibly strong marriage. Over the years, I think I've discovered how they make it work. My father spends all of his time trying to make sure my mother is happy. My mother spends her time trying to ensure that my father is happy. Neither one spends much time worrying about themselves. Some people might say 'you have to think of yourself sometimes, you have to do what's good for you'. I think that may be true, unless the other person is already spending all their time ensuring that you don't have to worry about yourself. In the end, it just kind of works out right.

I think Free-DC is kind of like that. So long as the community as a whole tries to ensure that the individual members are enjoying themselves rather than worrying about what's best for the group, then the individual members will tend to try to do what's best for the community as a whole, even when it's not necessarily what they would consider best for them.

In case you hadn't noticed, I really like this place and I'm extremely proud of how well we get along and how smoothly things go around here! :thumbs:

Oy. I'm glad I left TSF now. Some of the folks over there are emphasizing the wrong things.

When people have freedom, they will build community (people seem to be hard-wired to need it). If they have freedom with respect, they will help out other folks because it helps them. Strenghthening the community helps the individual.

As an example, I'm a one DC project person. Always have been, since the early days of SETI. But, when Dyr said that Chessbrain needed help, and that it ran with other projects well, I tossed a couple boxes on Chessbrain, because Dyr gives to the community and doesn't spout crap. I respect him and his judgement, so when he asks for something that helps everyone, well, that helps me, too.

But, when folks start screaming about how people should do this or people shouldn't do that, people get their backs up, and pretty soon you have a bunch of One True Wayers running around offending everyone. People leave, and community is destroyed.

I sincerely hope the Ars people work out their problems in a way that makes most of them happy. I may not crunch for Ars any more, but I am an Arsian, in a lot of ways. It hurts all of us who do DC when this kind of thing happens.

What a odd turn of events.....I didn't think distributed computing was intended to be a job?! :shocked:

i don't blame the old timers for wanting to finish SETI in #1 , way back when there weren't a lot of options for DC projects, and many people got heavily involved in SETI and have a LOT of time and EFFORT and $$$ invested.

so i understand LL and some of them wanting to stay #1 after all these years

but i don't think there is a good way to accomplish their goal, they can't really please everybody and the people that want to do SETI to ensure a #1 spot are already doing it. :dunno:

I think DG summed up the point of LL's post perfectly
when she inquired as to when ARS-DC was going to become TPR-DC.

i thought the post ( i forget who said it) that pointed out that the naming of the sub teams (the food thing) , as something that contributed to the isolation and seperation of people at Ars was on the mark

yes I agree.

PS
It looks like they are trying to push the thread off the first page.

I've been following the "What kind of Ars..." thread since it started and I think that the single most important thing that's emerged is that the idea of developing a distinct identity for each project team has been a drawback. It's not Ars vs the world, it's TLC vs TVM vs TCC vs TSF. Even their subteams have subteams, and it all leads to territorial aggression. Ars has managed to create new paradigm: a feudal kingdom in the digital era, with a bunch of small states who owe allegiance to their lord and master (who, ironically, happens be called "Caesar") but fight amongst themselves for political power. It's a stable system, in an extremely chaotic sense. These blowups appear with regularity and then go away.

Ars is a huge group of people, and so there will always be some who want to decide how things work, and there will always be those who oppose them. The issue of which projects to emphasize will get worse instead of better. I doubt the vitriol being flung around over there will do much to help them. They won't fall apart completely, but a lot of them are going to be mad at the rest for a while. In the end, they won't keep all their #1 spots because they (like us) are spread too thin for complete domination.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ECL
...In the end, they won't keep all their #1 spots because they (like us) are spread too thin for complete domination.

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maybe it is like real life in that complete domination is often easier when total control rests in the hands of one person (or a very small group)

nice post ECL , you summed it up very well :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by FoBoT
i thought the post ( i forget who said it) that pointed out that the naming of the sub teams (the food thing) , as something that contributed to the isolation and seperation of people at Ars was on the mark

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Gosh - where have I heard that before?

ECL-- I really like that description of Ars. Having to deal with several e-mails about that piece of crap thread, I wish it would go away quickly.

I'm off to bump TCC's thread back above it.

magicfan241
--Leader of the TCC city-state