Lots of problems.
I just got a new computer (AMD Athlon XP 2400+, 512 MB RAM, 80 Gig hard drive) and it's been freezing up on me. I think it is DF that is causing it. Sometimes it just freezes up the entire screen so the only thing I can do is reboot. That happened I think three times. Other times, there's a message in DF about a "null void" error (sorry, the two times this has happened I didn't write down the whole message) which had DF just sit there and required me to restart it. And then this morning, the computer is again froze up. Fortunately (if it can be viewed this way), it did have a message.
"The instruction at "0x77fcc488" refereneced memory at "0x77fcc488". The memory could not be "read". Click on OK to terminate the program."
When I clicked on OK, another message appeared just like above but two new numbers were given. 0x77f830c5 and 0x00000098. When I clicked on OK, it restarted my computer.
Now on my old computer (PIII 500 Mhz, 512 MB RAM, 13.5 gig hard drive), this has happened as well this morning and there was a similar message as above, though the numbers were different.
Both machines had only been running DF. I thought maybe it was just my new machine not being able to handle it (I thinking this being because of getting that one set up to be my primary and all), but it has happened now (this morning) also to my old machine that has been able to handle DF and has been part of DF for over a year now. No, nothing was ripped out of it and put into the new one.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Which OS?
Win 9x/ME? If so, then that's possible. Try running something like memtest86 or whatever.
If it's NT/2K/XP/Linux, then it's highly unlikely that DF would be to blame. With those OS'es, memory is split up differently so that it's much less likely that a single process brings down the entire machine. I suppose it might be possible, but it would still be extremely unlikely.
Which chipset? Are you using AGP at all?
Win2000 on the new computer. Win98 on the old.
I don't understand what you mean by chipset.
try running it a couple of days withOUT DF and see if it stops doing that
Use the right tool for the right job!
The other generic advice is to check your RAM. If you are using agressive timings you should try "dialing it back" a bit. Yes I know you are having problems with two different machines, but the advice stands...
Don't Panic
Ok, I'll shut down DF on this computer for a couple days and see if the problem persists.
As for being aggressive with either of these machines, I'm not. No overclocking or such.
The motherboard chipset. For example, my motherboard is a Biostar M7VIF, which uses a Via KT333 chipset. I was wondering which chipset your motherboard uses.Originally posted by Scott Jensen
I don't understand what you mean by chipset.
Is this the screensaver or client or Windows service?
Also, please post in the proper place - this should be in 'technical support' where I will move it shortly
Howard Feldman
The motherboard is ASUS A7N8X. Is that what you're asking for?
Both computers are using the the command line version (blackbox). Not screensaver.
Oh, also found out that this is the reason why a friend of mine dropped out of DF as he was having the same problems.
http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7n8x/specification.htmOriginally posted by Scott Jensen
The motherboard is ASUS A7N8X. Is that what you're asking for?
According to that page (actually, it was listed a couple of pages before that, but I couldn't get a direct link, and I assume it's on this page too -- unfortunately, I can't verify as Asus' website just disappeared for me), your motherboard uses the nForce2 chipset. That was what I was looking for.
And that means?????
While yer waitin' to see if DF is the problem, make sure you've got the latest BIOS. The latest one listed on the Asus site is aw101e2m.zip. It claims to "Improve memory stability"!
If there's anything that the DF client needs, it's memory stability.
Directions for downloading / upgrading are on the page.
I'm running an Axp 2600+ 330Mhz fsb cpu on MSI's Nforce2 chipset (with 2 sticks of crucial ddr 333mhz ram (2700)).
(currently with WinXP - ya.. I like giving my teammates advantages, by using a slower OS..
After a few days of no DF and seeing no problems try this:
(test out the two things that get stressed by DF: the cpu & ram)
Since it's an Nforce2 chipset, and you're using a 266Mhz fsb cpu, see if switching to DDR 2100 (266Mhz) ram improves things. (it works "best" with ram that matches the front side but of the cpu). Or tell the bios that you have DDR 2100 (266mhz) ram, if you've got the higher speed DDR 2700+ ram.
And run motherboard monitor (or Asus's temperature sensing software) and see how hot your cpu is running, and how much voltage the motherboard is feeding the cpu. (I've had Asus motherboards that defaulted to giving my Athlon +0.20 volts more than they were supposed to have - which overheated the thing.
You (and your friend) should try to download the Prime95 client (http://mersenne.org/) - it's got a "torture test". If that fails, then your PC isn't stable but even if it runs perfectly, it's not a 100% garantee that your PC is stable.
I ran Prime95 stress test and it failed.
Man, am I bummed! I just bought this thing!
I installed MotherBoard Monitor and don't understand what I should be looking for or doing with it. Help would be really appreciated.
And should I be considering asking mwave.com for a refund? I cannot tell you how much I'm kicking myself for not buying a Dell. My old one was a Dell and I never had a hardware problem with it.
Well, now at least we can be fairly sure that the problem isn't the DF client.
Personally, I would strongly consider asking for a refund since they apparently have sold you a PC that isn't stable.
However, I know there are lots of other people here that knows much more about hardware than I, so I'll let them take over here
After just reading this samew type of thing in Maximum PC last night, it reminded me of one of the major factors that will cause this... the CPU overheating. Check MBM5 for the temperature of the Core. If it gets above 130F or 55-60C (not exact translations, but good enough), and it does this quickly, you need a better cooling setup.
Originally posted by Scott Jensen
I installed MotherBoard Monitor and don't understand what I should be looking for or doing with it. Help would be really appreciated.
And should I be considering asking mwave.com for a refund? I cannot tell you how much I'm kicking myself for not buying a Dell. My old one was a Dell and I never had a hardware problem with it.
Some odd things when I ran MotherBoard Monitor, the fans are registering as 0 rpm. However, I can hear them running ... or at least I've been told that the only steady sound you hear from your computer is the fans and I can hear the soft sound of what sounds like at least one fan running.
As for the read-outs from MBM, these are it:
Sensor 1, 2, 3: 32 F (this is odd since I know the room temperature is well above this)
Core 0: 1.66-1.71 V
Core 1: 1.66-1.71 V
+3.3: 3.39 V
+5.00: 4.89 V
+12.00: 11.92 V
-12.00: -12.45 V
-5.00: -5.22 V
Fan 1, 2, 3: 0 RPM
CPU: 1966 Mhz (even though my computer friends say my chip speed should be at least 2.43 Mhz)
CPU 0: 0% (even though I'm right now running Prime95's Torture Test)
Now in set-up of MBM, it talked about my computer (A7N8X) needing possibly some special instruction done to insure I don't get screwed up results, but I cannot now find those instructions. Anyone know what I'm talking about and what I need to do to get good readings?
The box also came with a number of fans built into it. My computer friends set this thing up for me and I saw at least one of these fans not connected to the power source. They said the necessary fans were and these extra were for when I added in more hardware thus needing more cooling. Should I just ask my friends to just hook up one or more of these other fans?
My computer froze up doing the Prime95 Torture Test.I rebooted and started it up again. No different readings from MBM and back to doing the Torture Test.
There is a lot of different stuff for you to absorb in all this, so take it easy, and don't get overwhelmed.
Your CPU speed is fine. A XP2400+ should have a clock speed of about 2.0Ghz.
As far as your fans go, in order to register they would have to be using one of the three-pin headers on your motherboard, and have the middle (third) pin connected. Even then MBM has to be able to "read" the values off of the motherboard. That often requires a bit of playing with it to achieve. You definitely have a fan in your power supply, another on the CPUs heatsink, and perhaps one or two more on the motherboard chipset, and/or video card GPU.
A suggestion to get a "feel" for the cooling situation is to take the side off of the machine and run that way a while. All by itself, that might help if the system is just a little under-cooled.
But the plan here is to be ready when the machine fails to test various components with one of your built-in digital temperature sensors (I usually go with an index finger). Immediately after a crash, feel around a bit and see if any component feels hot to the touch. There may be several places where you find something warm, but nothing should be hot enough to be uncomfortable to leave your finger against. The hottest components should be just a little cooler than the hottest hot water that you get out of a tap.
You can also feel around while the system is running, but be sure to ground yourself against the metal case first to get rid of any static electricity, and please be careful around those fans; they can give you a nasty cut.
Don't Panic
Two programmer / tech support friends are coming over tonight to run diagnostics on this computer. Anything I can download right now before they come that they might like to use?
Odds are they will bring their own toys, but I'd suggest downloading Sandra if you dont have it. A few cold beverages would never be bad idea, but only a few. Friends don't let friends...
Don't Panic
My favorite is Memtest86Originally posted by Scott Jensen
Two programmer / tech support friends are coming over tonight to run diagnostics on this computer. Anything I can download right now before they come that they might like to use?
http://www.memtest86.com/
It goes on it's own bootable floppy (or CD). I never run any other software on a new machine untill it has run Memtest86 awhile. Note that it can catch any problem between the CPU and memory, not just a problem with the memory. (I recently had a board fail memtest86 test #5, but it out to be a problem with the motherboard.)
i've briefly read over this thread. two things i recomend.
1) Get that bios update. they work wonders for a lot of problems. especially since it states that it fixes the ram stability
2) Try cooling down your system. even 5 degree's can mean a lot of stability. if you can lower it by 15 or so, you might see a real change
You can also call multiwave tech support.
They are pretty good.
I personally have never had a problem with a multiwave box, but it's entirely possible.
If they built it, it does have a 1 year warranty on it.
Just an update. One of my computer/tech support friends had me take off the side panel of the computer, wait five minutes, and run the Prime95 Torture Test. It ran for hours this way until he and my other computer/tech support friend came over to take a look at it. It is their opinion now that is was just a heating problem. They're having me continue running it this way (side off and Torture Test) for the next 24 hours to be sure. If it runs fine, there's a fan that wasn't powered in the box and they'll hook it up, put the side back on, and test it then. If it has problems again, they'll put some sort of a gel on it and possibly add one or more fans to the box. They say Athlon has a common problem with heat. Just thought all those in this thread would like to know what's currently being done. Thanks for all the suggestions. My two friends read over all your posts before coming over.
You should probably have them plug the extra fans in anyway. It will help.
Sounds to me like a memory problem. DF is always the first thing to fall (in exactly the way you mentioned) when I OC my RAM to aggressively.
Team Anandtech DF!
15 hours, 46 minutes -- Hardware failure
Side off of box, room even chilly.
*sigh*
It says it's for "x86 architecture computers". Is mine a x86 machine?
One, they didn't bring any toys ... partly because I think they thought it was just a heat problem.Originally posted by TheOtherZaphod
Odds are they will bring their own toys, but I'd suggest downloading Sandra if you dont have it.
Two, the Sandra sites says:
"Please select the platform you are currently using:
Microsoft Windows Platform
Windows 32 Platform
Windows 32-bit x86 (Intel Compatible) Platform
Win32 x86 (98/Me/NT4/2000/XP/2003) - ANSI & Unicode
Windows 64 Platform
Windows 64-bit IA64 (Intel) Platform
Win64 IA64 (XP/2003) - Unicode
Windows 64-bit AA64 (AMD) Platform
Win64 AA64 (2003) - Unicode
Microsoft Windows CE (embedded) Platform
Windows CE Platform
Windows CE Pocket PC
Windows CE .Net Platform
Generic/Webpad "
Mine is a AMD Athlon so I assume I should pick:
"Windows 64-bit AA64 (AMD) Platform
Win64 AA64 (2003) - Unicode "
Correct?
AMD_is_logical,
It would appear by the Sandra site that I do not have a x86 system. Correct?
No, if you have an Athlon XP you would want to look for the 32-bit x86 version for your OS. The Win64 AA64 (AMD) is for the AMD 64-bit chip (Hammer?) running WindowsXP 64-bit. If you had one of those, you'd probably know it - new, fancy, expensive, specialized. All of the straight Athlons (XP, MP) are x86 compatible. Hope this helps...Originally posted by Scott Jensen
One, they didn't bring any toys ... partly because I think they thought it was just a heat problem.
Two, the Sandra sites says:
"Please select the platform you are currently using:
Microsoft Windows Platform
Windows 32 Platform
Windows 32-bit x86 (Intel Compatible) Platform
Win32 x86 (98/Me/NT4/2000/XP/2003) - ANSI & Unicode
Windows 64 Platform
Windows 64-bit IA64 (Intel) Platform
Win64 IA64 (XP/2003) - Unicode
Windows 64-bit AA64 (AMD) Platform
Win64 AA64 (2003) - Unicode
Microsoft Windows CE (embedded) Platform
Windows CE Platform
Windows CE Pocket PC
Windows CE .Net Platform
Generic/Webpad "
Mine is a AMD Athlon so I assume I should pick:
"Windows 64-bit AA64 (AMD) Platform
Win64 AA64 (2003) - Unicode "
Correct?
Louis
Edit - It looks like Hammer was the code-name for the chip - will be released as either Athlon 64 or Opteron. Boy, that makes it easier, right? Can't wait for the Pentium 5...
Last edited by Louis; 01-29-2003 at 01:53 PM.
You have an Athlon, and all Athlons are based on the x86 architecture, as are all Pentiums. Basically, if it's the type of computer that can run something like Win98 or WinXP, then it is x86.Originally posted by Scott Jensen
AMD_is_logical,
It would appear by the Sandra site that I do not have a x86 system. Correct?
So go ahead and try memtest86.
Scott,
You are looking for one of these three:
Microsoft Windows Platform
Windows 32 Platform
Windows 32-bit x86 (Intel Compatible) Platform
Win32 x86 (98/Me/NT4/2000/XP/2003) - ANSI & Unicode
I think I'd take the bottom one as it seems to be the most "one size fits all" solution.
All PCs, going back to the original IBM clunkers can generically be described as x86 platforms. The first chips that ran 32 bit code were 80386 models that were produced about 20 years ago (I just thought about that a bit and realized...I'm getting too old for all this $%&%) Your AMD chip is built to run (more or less) the same instruction set as an Intel based machine.
In the near future you may be able to buy a consumer-grade 64 bit processor, but everything that is currently available is still running 32 bit code.
Don't Panic
Some more updates:
1) I ran memtest86 and it found one "failing address". Then after 1:29:48 "WallTime", it stopped and said "Unexpected Interrupt - Halting". It gave a LOT of numbers. Some with "fffffff" in their spots. There is now a cursor at the bottom of the screen with a flashing underline. Ummm. Anyone know what I should do now? Oh, and I did not touch the computer so I didn't ask it halt or anything.
2) Contacted mwave.com's tech support and they said the following:
"Dear Customer:
Thank you for contacting Mwave Tech Support. In this case, the memory module need to be replaced. Please contact our customer service at service@mwave.com to obtain a RMA number for the defective memory. Thank you.
best regards,
Richard
Mwave Tech Support"
Fired off an email to service@mwave.com and they replied:
"Dear Valued Customer,
> >
> > Please email us your invoice number so that we can access your account
and
> > see what service options are available. Thank you.
> >
> > Keo/Customer Service
> > Multiwave Technology"
A bit odd that they had ">"s for in their reply. Anyway, I sent them my invoice number and am now waiting to hear from them.
3) I didn't download Sandra. Is it just another test like memtest86? Or does it test different stuff? Should I download and run it now that I've run memtest86 and found the above?
And thanks for all the help, everyone! It is greatly appreciated.
More updates:
1) Service@mwave.com has replied back with the following:
"Dear Valued Customer,
Thank you for your email and I'm sorry to hear of the problem with your product. Please follow the rma instructions below for your replacement: Please write this RMA Number [deleted just in case that shouldn't be publicly posted] on top of the shipping label and return all of the original contents along with a copy of your invoice or packing list to:
Multiwave Direct
17901 E. Ajax Circle
Industry, CA 91748
Upon receipt of your product(s), we will arrange your RMA request within 48 hrs of receiving for single components and 4-5 days for bundles or system testing rma's. Please return the item(s) immediately, as this RMA Number is only valid for 15 days and if there are any address changes email it to us as notes are not read when received. All merchandise needs to be shipped prepaid and insured by the customer. Please be sure to use a shipping carrier such as UPS or Fedex, which provides sufficient tracking information. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Thank you for shopping with Multiwave Direct!
Keo/Customer Service
www.mwave.com"
Oh, and I (or rather my computer friends) put in the hard drive. Should I take that back out before shipping it to them? It was shipped separately.
2) I guess memtest86 couldn't wait for me to make up my mind and now the screen is changed. It's stopped and has this line of information:
WallTime: 1:29:48
Cached: 512M
RsvdMem: 84K
MemMap: e820-Std
Cache: off
ECC: off
Test: Std
Pass: 4
Errors: 1
ECC Errors: 0
There's flashing underline at the bottom of the screen waiting for me to tell it to do something. Any suggestions?
it looks as if only the memory module needs to be replaced. (i guess they think it's that rather than the motherboard or settings)
the memory module looks like this:
If you remove the memory module yourself be VERY carefull about static electricity. Memory and motherboard are both easily damaged by static. Touch the case (somewhere where there is bare metal) before touching anything inside, and keep some part of yourself touching the case (finger or bare arm, etc.) as long as you're touching anything in the case. If necessary, find someplace that describes how to remove/replace memory.
And I know people who have bought Dells that turned out to be unstable.
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