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Thread: A new measure of greatness ;-)

  1. #1
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    A new measure of greatness ;-)

    OK so I'm winding down with Boinc after 10 years, after much thought, debate and putting it off, and basically finding one excuse after another to keep going that overrides the fact that everything tells me that lack of work since Covid has meant I can not justify the cost of the electricity. Roll on Quantum computers - I think I have plenty of quantums going spare that I am not using ;-)

    I love the concept behind Boinc, I love doing tiny bits of science to help science, but I also love that I can 'massage' my stats by picking and choosing projects and subprojects to maximise my various rankings. It just adds to the experience in my view. Some out there are aware that I am a bit of a spreadsheet nerd with regard to Boinc, and have persuaded Bok to introduce a couple of Milestones in the past. Anyway it's been interesting to watch my various Free-DC stats change as I gradually focus on fewer and fewer milestones that I want to achieve.

    So it set me thinking. I have always maintained in my spreadsheets two numbers in particular that are not available in Free-DCs excellent summaries. The first is the "best count I have ever achieved for each MegaMilestone", and the second is the total of all of these best counts. Now I am not suggesting that these be stored, however as my Squarepants dwindles, primarily due to a lack of Clanks and SubClanks, which in turn lead to less MiRBs, SubMiRBs and Maxwells, I realised that an ex-Clank (and related) total could in fact be a universally rankable measure of any Boincer. With this number you could compare yourself in Free-DC terms with anyone and everyone that has ever Boinced, whether or not you were actively Boincing. It would be a good measure of just how big a contributor you have been over the years and it would live on, in that even if you have long stopped Boincing, for whatever reasons, you could pop back into Free-DC and have a quick look and be able to say "Ooh! I am still in the top 10000!" or whatever.

    So here's what I am suggesting. A new ranked MegaMilestone, which is essentially Squarepants assuming both Clanks and SubClanks were 0, and taking into account the effects of them being 0. Simple! ;-)

    In short this number is the number of Squarepants any Boincer would have in a month's time if she/he stopped Boincing today1 (obviously you can't allow for the likes of Ralph sitting on work that's been done for a couple of months ;-)
    This number puts everyone past and present on a more or less level playing field. and could (I would argue should) be Ranked to make it significantly more meaningful. It should not itself be added to Squarepants, nor should it contribute in any way to MiRBs, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells in my opinion

    I can hear some of you saying that Total Credits is as good a Rankable indicator of everyone's contribution and is all we need, and it is already there. To a large extent - that is of course, true. However, there have been the odd times where a Project has 'skewed' the entirety of stats with its 'generosity' and it is possible this could happen again, but this is to some extent, smoothed by this new suggested MM and more importantly by its Ranking.

    As for a name for it, as I wrote this I thought how it Levels, Smooths, hints towards historic ranking, and how slightly odd it would be, sat there enigmatically changing relatively little compared to Squarepants, and it seems to me I would called it Enigma.

    So what do you think?


    Notes
    1 In theory the number should take into account the effect of removing Clanks and SubClanks on other MMs (effectively taking off zero, one or two off each of MiRBs, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells as appropriate), and then taking into account if that decrease in MiRBs, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells would in itself further affect the levels of MiRBs, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells! This just seems to be going too far. I would happily accept the argument that the total possible effect of removing them and their effect on each other could only ever affect the score by between 0 and 12 so if it couldn't be readily done, it wouldn't be the end of the world - the most dramatic effect would be that your score in fact dropped by a very few, a month after finally stopping Boincing.

  2. #2
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    LOL! Clearly you need to be a retiree to think this is a good idea worth pursuing, and just maybe they don't come to the forum very often I should have thought of that.
    Either that or I am just so longwinded that eyes glazed over long before I got to the point. Probably both. Points, not eyes, though that too!

  3. #3
    Administrator Bok's Avatar
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    I confess that i did read it, but did not understand it.

    Too much going on this week anyway, got an SAP Production migration this weekend and with all my colleagues in Dallas struggling with power/heat/water due to the storm there it's only more crazy

  4. #4
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    OK Sorry. Let me have another go.

    Total Credit is a good indication of any Boincers status, and I would never take that away from anyone. However, if you take out Bitcoin from the equation that would change the league table / rankings dramatically, so those who poured their resources into Bitcoin will pretty much inevitably be always and for all time ranked higher than others who did not, quite possibly because Bitcoin didn't last very long and they just weren't there at the time. Yet others may well have in reality contributed more CPU/GPU time.

    So I was looking for another method of ranking Boincers past and present, active and inactive, against each other, without taking Bitcoin achievements out of the equation. It seems to me that Squarepants is as good a measure as any other and better than most.

    However, as I personally was forced to wind down the number of machines I was turning on to Boinc every day, and consider what projects I wanted to get to some meaningful total before stopping completely, I watched my Squarepants tally drop quite significantly due to the effect of fewer Clanks and SubClanks, and in turn as they dropped, it took a small toll on my MiRB's, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells. This, believe it or not, then in turn took a further toll on Maxwells, TeraMiRBs and MiRBs!!! As you can get each of them for the other two! But never mind that.

    So my thoughts turned to a system of fairness in creating a sort of Historical Free-DC Hall of Fame. It seems to me if you were to total up all the MegaMilestones Except Clanks and SubClanks, and ideally exclude any MiRBs, TeraMiRBs and Maxwells that are associated with them, then that could be just such a measure to compare everyone past and present on as equal a footing as we are likely to find. Call the total Enigmas because it probably is, and rank it for all Boincers, and there you have a fairly sensible Free-DC Hall of Fame.

    And for reasons that I would hope are obvious, I would exclude Enigmas from being included in Squarepants, and would be tempted to suggest that you don't get a MiRB, TeraMiRB or Maxwell for Enigmas either.

    Hope that's clearer. And hope you get through the coming weekend Bok.
    Last edited by MarkRBright; 02-17-2021 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Typos

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    Mark, I hope you don't leave Boinc forever. Actually I hope you don't leave Boinc at all...

    Regarding this new MM, I assume that it only goes up and not down matching your best achievement at any given time. I think this is a lot better than merely total credits as it would include other MM factors as well. I for one have always tried for those other factors as my limited computing power has never given me a chance to push any sort of credit record.

    As for calling it Enigma, I would like to say that it sounds too similar to the Boinc project named Enigma. As an alternative name I, in an act of self aggrandizement, would like to see it called Werin....but like all my other MM suggestions that suggestion too will likely result in a belly flop. A more likely name, probably thought of by someone else, would be "Pinnacle" as it is the best that anyone has achieved.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    I think something that only ever went up would give Bok too much of a headache in calculating it, when individual MMs went down.
    I was aiming for something that stayed pretty static for Ranking purposes, but now you have made me realise that it would be more static, and I think be much easier for Bok to calculate, if not only the Clanks/SubClanks/Squarepants were excluded but also the various (Sub)Top10's etc, Vaios, Maxwells, MiRBs and TeraMiRBs too, as they will generally decline as others pick up the torch. If they were taken out, then this new tally would stay static, and would therefore provide a stable basis for subsequent Ranking, and it is the Ranking that this is really all about.

    Pinnacle seems a little odd given that it will undoubtedly be a smaller number than Squarepants. Perhaps Brightys or Rankems? Oh! How about Enigmax?
    Last edited by MarkRBright; 02-19-2021 at 03:53 AM. Reason: Clarity

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    I saw Enigmax and I thought of shipping size limits...panamax, suezmax, chinamax, etc....

  8. #8
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    So was I right? Is this one that only the retiring / retired are interested in? Perhaps the reason they don't come back (and comment on this) is because there is no EnigMax to tempt them back!
    I am more and more convinced (as I play with the numbers in my spreadsheets) that excluding all the Top's/SubTop's, Vaios, Maxwells, MiRBs and TeraMiRBs as well as the Clanks / SubClanks, gives a fairly solid and static rankable Free-DC achievement level. But it has occurred to me that some of the great Boincers of the past may have Boinced for many years with relatively little kit, so I am now thinking of adding a weighting for the number of years boinced. This would make it trickier as you would have to track a last activity date, but it would also encourage people to stick with it. I am open to suggestions as to how this could be done but I am thinking along the lines of adding a 19% bonus if you've Boinced for 19 years sort of thing.
    As I said though, the significance is not in the number itself - but in the Rank - so it could be put up into the header on the main stats page if it was easier - though ideally blinking with flashing lights and music and some animated fireworks when you hover over it.
    And obviously it should allow you to click it and look at the Hall of Fame.
    Given how I know you like the odd bit of mysterious Bok it would be quite funny if the only place anyone could work out how it was calculated was in this thread.
    I would love to know where I rank on this. All I currently know is I have an EnigMax of 1607 by the above suggested definition (including weighting) and I suspect my rank is a long way short of my Squarepants Rank.
    Last edited by MarkRBright; 03-01-2021 at 04:51 AM. Reason: Typos

  9. #9
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    Just had a thought about the name - Legacy. Something you would build up and would leave/keep forever sort of thing. Does that sound better? It's also slightly enigmatic, and slightly Pinnacle-ish

    Come on now Bok, you've been far too quite here. What's your view on this? If you just hate it then that's fine by me, but I don't think you will, and now you have me worried about that storm!

  10. #10
    Administrator Bok's Avatar
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    Just feeling a bit burnt out right now, waiting for inspiration.

    This hurts my brain to think about, maybe I need it written out a bit clearer

  11. #11
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    Sorry - it kind of evolved in my meanderings - I'll try again. Forget all that went before.

    Free-DC Legacy (or EnigMax) is intended to be a measure of "All Time Achievement" in Free-DC terms. It hopefully provides a 'standard' by which all Boincers past and present can be fairly compared and ranked, and to a large extent negates the effect of the slant given by the likes of Bitcoin Utopia and maybe some others I don't know about.

    To do this I am suggesting that you total all Free-DC MegaMilestones that are not affected by time, so that it doesn't matter if you haven't Boinced for years or not, you could still occasionally look in on your Legacy.

    So we need to specifically count:- Projects and Subprojects, all the count breaks (1ks, 10ks, etc, Sub1k's Sub10k's etc) Trigggls, Boks, TeraBoks etc (and their Sub equivalents) and Nebbers.

    Or to put it another way count all MMs except :- SquarePants, Maxwells, MiRBs and SubMiRBs, Vaios, Top10s, Top100 Ranks etc (and their Sub equivalents), Clanks and SubClanks.

    There may well be others I don't even know about but hopefully you get the gist, if they are affected by time then they are excluded. Obviously any new MM's would have to be considered for inclusion in the Legacy count.

    Optional Length of Service Weighting
    Having gotten a total, a 'bonus' or weighting could then be applied to reward longer term Boincers. I would suggest a 1% or 2% bonus for every year Boinced. I am open about this but appreciate you would need to track a "Last Seen Date" as well as the current "First Seen Date", and update it yearly or daily, whichever seems right - and that may well be impossible to do retrospectively, though it may be in your database somewhere in some form or another. If it can't be done then hey ho, never mind.
    So it would look something like this:-
    Legacy = Total of Counts x (( 100 + No of years service) / 100 )

    Optional Total Credit Rank Weighting
    Perhaps there is an opportunity for another weighting based on total credits earned which might appease the heavy Bitcoin Utopia Boincers. I've only just thought of this and I am not altogether sure it is a good idea, but you could weight the count like this
    Legacy = Total of Counts x (( 100 + Percentile ) / 100 ) Note: Where Percentile comes from the main userbycpid summary
    You could do both. It might make it more interesting because it would make it even harder to work out where on earth the rank came from

    However you arrive at a Legacy number, this should then be ranked which is really the point of it.

    To keep changes simpler, the Legacy Count itself and subsequent Free-DC Legacy Rank, need not appear on the MM table. I would be happy with just the Legacy Rank appearing in the main userbycpid summary, where we can all see just how good (or not) our Legacy will be, though it would be nice if clicking it could show everyone in Ranked order if that is possible - I imagine it could possibly increase rivalry.

    I would argue that Legacy itself should not contribute towards any other MM, particularly Maxwells, MiRBs and TeraMiRBs, and certainly not Squarepants.
    I also think that whilst it might sound complicated, it's not much different from counting and ranking Squarepants

    I hope that makes sense now. Happy to answer any questions. Cheers.
    Last edited by MarkRBright; 03-04-2021 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Clarity

  12. #12
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    I can't believe nobody thinks enough of this idea to comment on it one way or the other. Weird!
    Perhaps most current people looking have heavily invested in Bitcoin Utopia, fair enough, if I had I would probably think the same way.
    However I for one still feel having some form of leveller across time would be good.
    Oh well. I will retire shortly safe in the knowledge that once I had reached the dizzy heights of 1937th in the rankings, but have since dropped steadily to 2110th today and my contribution will forever become more and more meaningless. Hey Ho!

  13. #13
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    Just thought I would remind all the many interested parties that I am still happy to answer any questions

  14. #14
    Administrator Bok's Avatar
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    I did a little bit of work on this but didn't get that far yet.

  15. #15
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    Cool. Very happy to hear it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member MarkRBright's Avatar
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    So I've just calculated my Legacy value by adding up the non-time related MMs and used both of the above optional weightings and come up with a grand total of 3249.
    It's probably worth mentioning that I used a decimal for "No of years service". Just to be clear, I have done 9.49 years of Boincing for example so I get a 9.49% bonus.
    If anyone wants to compare that's fine but without a rank it's pretty meaningless, so if you all want to post your Legacy values here ....
    Last edited by MarkRBright; 04-08-2021 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Accuracy

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