Thread: um?

**FoBoT** · 04-17-2002, 10:10 PM

so is there a free-DC gimps team or not?

i tried the linky to the project area and it took me to a page for team prime rib, which is the Ars team

**FoBoT** · 04-18-2002, 10:16 AM

after reading the FAQ on the primenet site, it seems to me that this project doesn't really support teams, at least not the way others do

looks like you just "share" an account with other people
i can't like that :/

guess i'll let this P4 finish its current work and then drop gimps again, i realized i had done this back in february

**whilden@ars** · 04-18-2002, 11:05 AM

From Ironbits "Team Prime Rib team members are made up from all kinds of sites already and meets with what Free-DC is all about, don't you think? I support Xyzzy and TPR."

About the teams issue, if you take a look around teamprimerib.com (after the site gets back up an running(was hacked)) you can see how our stats gods have broken down production per person. We also have overtake reports etc, your p4's are more then welcomed and all work that has been done could/if wanted be moved to the TPR account. TPR has more stats then most other DC projects, and ofcourse the best group of people.

**Beyond** · 10-23-2003, 07:37 AM

me takes a look at GIMPS...

**IronBits** · 10-23-2003, 09:23 AM

If ya got P4s, or Intel anything with 512kb or more L2 cache, they can certainly use the help right now.

Stop in over here http://www.mersenneforum.org and say hi

**PCZ** · 10-23-2003, 10:56 AM

Obviously it's more important to help out the opposition than the Free-DC DF team.

**Beyond** · 10-23-2003, 05:41 PM

Hmmm...I fail to see how joining the mersenneforum helps us here at Free-DC.

Is there something I'm missing, perhaps I need to read all the threads in this forum a little closer.

D'oh, now I see what you meant by the opposition, we are supporting the ARS' team? :shocked:

**IronBits** · 10-23-2003, 07:35 PM

It is not an 'Ars Team' - it's made up of many members from different teams from all around the globe.
We have no Team in Gimps.
We decided very early on we would not create our own team but instead join their efforts.
Read some of the very first posts in this section to catch up or learn more.
It's all rather vague to me now... maybe Dyyryath would lend us some history lessons

But ya, put them on DF

**Beyond** · 10-23-2003, 08:09 PM

...umm, funny how that logo on the top left side looks like it has ARS spelled out on it.

Anyway, I was just looking for projects with little to no representation from our team that I could run to help our overall score in the DC Repository, and GIMPS looked to be an obvious choice for all the number crunching, math nuts amoungst us.

**IronBits** · 10-23-2003, 08:23 PM

Chessbrain could use some help, SOB could use some help before it ends /me shrugs

Ya like numbers eh? RC5

**Beyond** · 10-23-2003, 08:38 PM

I'll probably throw some on Chessbrain again.....what about this Euler2000 project I see we have a team on the scoreboard, but nothing on the forum (that I can find) about joining the team ect...Just by looking at the (limited) stats available it seems to me it would be easy to move up the ranks quickly.

**PCZ** · 10-23-2003, 10:28 PM

I say let em get beaten by CurtisC
Why should we bail them out ?

**IronBits** · 10-24-2003, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Beyond
I'll probably throw some on Chessbrain again.....what about this Euler2000 project I see we have a team on the scoreboard, but nothing on the forum (that I can find) about joining the team ect...Just by looking at the (limited) stats available it seems to me it would be easy to move up the ranks quickly.

Good!
I like my peanut butter thick

We are getting spread out pretty thin now as it is...
we don't want to lose our lead in DF, which is our main project...

**alpha** · 10-24-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by IronBits
Ya like numbers eh? RC5

I'd just like to point out that RC5-72 is a waste of time.

I know, that is a very controversial thing to say on a public forum but these forums are far too quiet. Plus it is true

**PCZ** · 10-26-2003, 12:00 PM

Alpha

I have to agree with you.
Most number crunching projects are a complete waste of CPU time.

Where is the benefit to mankind in cracking one sentence encrypted with a 72bit
key.

**alpha** · 10-27-2003, 02:30 AM

PCZ, I was actually referring to the fact that the chances of the RC5-72 project being completed in a reasonable amount of time are miniscule. But I do see where you are coming from.

**willy1** · 11-01-2003, 12:37 PM

Even after reading this thread, I'm still confused over the team issue on this project, and it doesn't appear that the other two threads in this forum section have any bearing on the question ??????

Is there a link somewhere to this Team Prime Rib that would provide more info?

As always...

willy1

edit: Google found this site which also seems to indicate that Team Prime Rib is an ARS-TECHINA team.

edit #2: and it appears that ARTS-TECHINA gets number 1 credit on the DC Repository in both GIMPS and SOB based on the TeamPrimeRib standing. IF it's truly not an "ARTS" team, then is this not incorrect?

**ECL** · 11-01-2003, 01:46 PM

Willy1, you're right. TPR is an Ars Technica team which participates in Gimps and SOB. We have an SOB team of our own. There are Free-DC members crunching for the Ars Gimps team, some because they were already there before Free-DC was formed and others because they wanted to be on the #1 team instead of struggling to climb from the bottom. I guess nobody's really pressed the issue for a couple of years -- there's no shortage of other projects.

This is one of our thornier team issues. Do we create our own team and have an identity on Gimps? Or do we just crunch for some other team?

A Free-DC Gimps team starting out now would rank low in the Repository, and barely register at all on the overall Gimps rankings. We don't have the firepower available to make that much headway on our own, but we probably also couldn't help save TPR from Curtisc, even if more of us were willing to crunch under their banner.

Free-DC pretty much settled for being TPR's reserve team back in the early days, but since then we've become a force to be reckoned with in the DC world and it may be time to revisit the question of whether helping Ars is in our best interests. Given the low (and declining) activity rates on most projects, it would appear that the pool of available DC enthusiasts is shrinking. I'd hate to see us push away anyone because of a decision made two+ years ago.

Even though I ditched Gimps long ago, I suppose it wouldn't hurt Free-DC to have a foothold over there. Even a small team can find a prime, and this would give Free-DC members a choice about which Gimps team to support. That choice is kind of what Free-DC is about. Nobody has to crunch for Free-DC, but if they want to, we should support them.

**willy1** · 11-01-2003, 02:38 PM

Does GIMPS allow the crunchers to take their points (WUs ?) with them? Would that give a Free-DC team an initial boost, instead of starting at absolute 0?

Maybe that would be politically unwise move, based on the history...

BTW, thanks for the history lesson.

willy1

**MereMortal** · 11-01-2003, 03:06 PM

willy1 (since you e-mailed me),

The following is my stance on this topic for the DC Repository. With all due respect to IronBits, I regard TPR as an Ars team; they claim it as their own in their posted standings, and it follows with their naming scheme.

The fact that members from other teams are on that team is irrelevant. If you are silly enough

to crunch under another team's banner, don't expect to come to me post facto, complain about it, and try to make it my problem. All you're likely to get out of me is a chuckle.

I made it a policy when I started out that if listed teams combined in a project under one or the other team's name, only that team whose name is used would receive credit. Seems like a reasonable thing to me...

**willy1** · 11-01-2003, 03:32 PM

MereMortal -

Thank You for the clarification of your position on TeamPrimeRib. I hope my email wasn't taken as a complaint, but as a request for information from the operator of the DC Repository, in light of the opinions expressed elsewhere in this thread.

To recap:

Evidently, from the responses here, TeamPrimeRib has evolved from a cross-organizational GIMPS team to simply one of the ARS-TECHINA DC teams.

With that opinion reinforced by others, it seems as though if Free-DC wanted to make their own presence in GIMPS, from an organizational point of view there would be no objections. Individual GIMPS crunchers would have to decide whether to stay with TeamPrimeRib or not.

Would that make any (significant) impact on the Free-DC standing in the DC Repository?

willy1

(Perhaps I should just return to watching the effects of increased CO2 on the temperature and rainfall of our planet, and leave the team inter-relationship topics alone.)

**magnav0x** · 11-01-2003, 05:00 PM

willy1, the reason I never ran GIMPS is because we had no team created there. If you were to create one I would put a box on

I think it would be healthy for Free-DC as a whole if we created our own team. That would attract others from the team to try out GIMPS (those like me, not willing to crunch another team's banner)

**FoBoT** · 11-01-2003, 05:36 PM

the evolution of this thread is interesting

**Beyond** · 11-01-2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by willy1
Does GIMPS allow the crunchers to take their points (WUs ?) with them? Would that give a Free-DC team an initial boost, instead of starting at absolute 0?

Maybe that would be politically unwise move, based on the history...

BTW, thanks for the history lesson.

willy1

The only way to move units is if you crunched on your own (not on a team), then changed your account (name and password) to reflect the "new" team account info.

I too, would be willing to add a machine or 2 a Free-DC team if created. Starting out "low" in the stats should not be a problem for the team, 4-5 P4's crunching DoubleChecks for a month will allow the team to show up in the DC repository stats.

**rsbriggs** · 11-01-2003, 08:18 PM

Count me in for a p4. So, who is going to create a Free-DC team and tell us all how to join it?

**willy1** · 11-01-2003, 09:25 PM

I can add a couple of P4s as well.

I believe there are a couple of types of crunching available in GIMPS. Does anyone know which are which, and what's the best for certain types of CPUs?

**rshepard** · 11-01-2003, 09:38 PM

I don't know if there is a processor advantage between the assignment types. Basically you have 3 choices:
1. Lucas-Lehmer tests- these are the most time consuming, but are capable of discovering a new prime number.
2. Trial factoring- this runs a faster set of tests; which can eliminate candidates from the testing list, but cannot prove primality like an LL test.
3. Double Checking- a fast set of tests to double-check LL-tests that return a negative result. In principle, you could find a prime with these, (due to a glitch in the original mavhine's run), but it isn't very likely.

**willy1** · 11-01-2003, 10:10 PM

Perhaps one of the Free-DC leaders could create the team. since it seems to require a stabile presence to be the team owner.

PrimeNet FAQ

Also, from reading the TeamPrimeRib FAQ , the team name and password is used by all the members, with individual accounts controlled (identified) at the machine level.
Example:
Team Name = FREE-DC
Password = FDC
MachineID = willy1_P4

It also has a quite nice guide for setting up the client.

This GIMPS site would appear to be the place to download the client software.

**Beyond** · 11-01-2003, 11:25 PM

Now would be a good time as the P4's(which kick ass on this project) running Windows are no better than glorified doorstops as far as SOB is concerned at the moment.

**magnav0x** · 11-02-2003, 02:17 AM

I have a P4 waiting for team creation as well

**rsbriggs** · 11-02-2003, 06:34 AM

OK - I built a GIMPS FreeDC team.

Team ID: FreeDC
Team Password: go-4-it
My comp ID: rsbriggs

Downloading instructions:
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

**rshepard** · 11-02-2003, 07:23 AM

From the FAQ

If you are the team leader, you should 'lock' the account by adding LockUserInfo=1 to the prime.ini file. When this update is sent to PrimeNet, nobody will be able to transfer the account or change the email address and contact person info, unless you email woltman@alum.mit.edu and request it.

If you set this lock, I think you could go public with the passwd, since the account is locked unless you e-mail Mr Woltman.

**alpha** · 11-02-2003, 07:35 AM

Shouldn't the team name be "Free-DC" since that is the name of the team?

I think the only places we don't use the hyphen are projects that don't or didn't support special characters (SoB).

**rsbriggs** · 11-02-2003, 08:34 AM

Then someone else will need to create that - it won't permit me to change the name or create another using my email address.

**rshepard** · 11-02-2003, 08:53 AM

It wouldn't let me create it with a hyphen...

**Beyond** · 11-02-2003, 09:04 AM

2 things, first the DC Repository only tracks LL stats/standings in the ranks, second for those wanting to see semi-quick statistics doublechecks are the units to crunch. P4's should finish 3-4 doublechecks per week, first time LL Test have a greater chance of finding a prime, but can take weeks to finish (depending on the range exponents) and last M33's a month or more on the fastest of P4's, but achance at finding a 10 million digit prime and "winning" prize money.

**alpha** · 11-02-2003, 09:04 AM

Oh well. Doesn't really matter, but consistency in our team name would be nice. If it isn't possible there isn't much you can do though, eh?

I could probably throw something on this if there was some work I could do that wouldn't take particularly long. I don't like devoting myself to months of crunching on one project alone. I don't have any intel boxen though, how do AMD CPUs perform in comparison?

As many of the above have posted, I will agree that it would be preferrable to be independant of Ars, even if we are starting from scratch.

**rshepard** · 11-02-2003, 09:12 AM

I think I'll throw in on this one, if we can get the passwd posted or PM'd.
Haven't run this in ages.... I think the exponents being tested last time I fired it up were in the 6,000,000-8,000,000 range

**rsbriggs** · 11-02-2003, 09:16 AM

Team ID: FreeDC
Team Password: go-4-it

Downloading instructions:
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

Looks like they have about tripled since you last checked - I'm doing M19792189

**Beyond** · 11-02-2003, 09:58 AM

The only monitering app I am aware of for gimps is DCMonitor only draw back is that it shows "unknown" status during P-1 testing.

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