Stat Lockdown please

[jbcool]

Howard,
Would it be possible to make it where when a person moves from on team to another that the numbers that they generated during their time with a team stay with the team? Or maybe as an altenative where they lose the numbers for a period of time, say like 30 days. That way it will keep the team jumpers from messing up everyones stats.

Thanks Howard.

[KWSN_Millennium2001Guy]

On this project it is my opinion that units crunched belong to the cruncher. If the cruncher chooses a different team then the new team gets the benefit when the new member joins.

The way Howard and Company has set up the point system on this project is very similar to the scoring system used at SetiAtHome, the grandfather of Distributed Computing projects.

Of course, my opinion on the Genome@Home project is that when you crunch units for a team, those units should stay with that team.

The scoring mechanisms were decided for the various projects before the first team was created. I am not in favor of changing the rules after the fact.

[plaidfishes]

Rather than being upset about the loss of stats for the team when somebody jumps, why not build a strategy around it? There are huge number of small crunchers out there who don't belong to any team. Get them to jump to your team. A hundred or so small crunchers will have a pretty major effect on your team stats.

Actively recruiting the unaffiliated is a Good Thing(tm). Outside of the teams, there is little to motivate a cruncher other than the pretty pictures. Inside of the teams, there is a strong social commitment to adding more boxen, a constant flow of encouragement and a strong sense of community. These are the things that motivate people. For you big farmers, ask yourself if you would ever have put the time and effort into these projects if you were not part of a team?

If joining a team is a big part of the decision to become a major cruncher, then it is in everyones long term interest to actively recruit the newbies into teams. Locking the stats would act to discourage joining teams by small crunchers since it would mean the loss of stats which are a lot harder for small guys to build.

Just 2 cents worth of my thoughts. Wholesale pricing is available.

[Angus]

Interesting opinion from the person with the second highest result count in the project....

You haven't stated any reasons to back up your opinion, and how you can reconcile that it's OK for one project but not others.

One of the oldest large projects - DistributedNet 's RC5 project - doesn't allow results to be moved from team to team.

Perhaps your opinion is driven by the KWSN team member habit of frivolously leaping between teams, throwing their weight of numbers around, and causing all sorts of havoc in any team vs. team stats trend analysis.


Angus
Free-DC
BS Detector

[KWSN_Millennium2001Guy]

My reasoning is based upon seeing a mass exodus from each of the various projects everytime the originators "mess with the stats".

The originators set up "the rules" ahead of time when they start the project.

People start contributing to the project and learn to play mental games and form competitions based on "the rules" for a given project.

If later on "the rules" for the project change it often alienates and angers many of the participants. People get frustrated and leave. This is never any good for the project.

I hope that you understood my message to be "Keep to the rules that have already been established." and "Don't mess with the stats."

As the 12th largest contributer to G@H and currently the 2nd highest contributer to this project, I understand the differences between the way the scoring is done on these two projects. I can see pros and cons of both scoring methodologies. Neither one is fully "correct", and neither one is totally "wrong", but they both are valid and both have merit. Just stick with the project that scores the way you are comfortable.

Incidentally, "That way it will keep the team jumpers from messing up everyones stats" is not a true statement. In fact if you look at Howard's stats he handles it perfectly. The team change is shown correctly in the very next 10 minute update. The stats are not "messed up" when someone changes teams. Granted, Statsman and Dyyryath have difficulties showing the history for the team, but after a week or so it all straightens out again.

[Supp]

I second plaidfishes's thought.
It's good to be owner of your own points.

BTW: KWSN! must be having good (very good!) fun with that zig-zag members movement. Let them play...when they get enough shrubs, they'll settle

[Angus]

Howard's stats are fine for what they are - a snapshot of a particular moment in time.

Team-hopping for fun plays havoc with the hourly, daily, weekly, monthly trend recording that truly tells how one team is doing against another. It would be better if team adds and deletes were not counted in the 'production' numbers, and simply ignored for purposes of production comparison.

Howard's are fine for knowing where you are on an absolute basis, but not whether you are winning or losing the production battle, and I prefer those stats to the absolute standings.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the team hopping for the sake of fun, and not because the loyalties have changed, and I see keeping the stats with the team as a way to curtail that activity.

[MAD-ness]

I agree with not changing the rules after the competition has begun. The rules work the same way for everyone, so you either adjust or you fall behind. As long as it is consistent and applied to everyone equally, the 'rules' will be fine in the long run.

BTW, MilleniumGuy, if you don't mind me asking, what do you have access to that allows you to put up such large numbers? Really rough estimation of your DF production puts it over 50ghz, though probably under 100ghz. To be 12th in G@H...wow. That would take a lot more.

[pelligrini]

Changing the rules in the middle of the game would be a bad move. In this project quite a few people have moved around just for the fun of it, myself included. I really don't see it as a bad thing. Sure it can fuxor the stats, but that's only for a short time. That's usually why some hop around, to create a little havoc, and have some fun. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. The sequences get crunched, the project moves right along, all the numbers end up in the same place - the DF project. If we can have a little fun while trying to advance the science, why not?

MAD-ness- It only took me 34Ghz to get to 5th in Genome. I did start a year ago with only ~4Ghz though, got it up to 20 about half way through. To top it all over half of my production was done on Pentium Pros. There's 64 Socket-8s on 22 boards in my little P-Pro army now. Some pics (couldn't pass up a chance to show off the depths of my genome-disease)

I know M2Kguy has access to a considerable force.

[TheOtherZaphod]

If we are voting, I like the SETI model:

If you quit a team, your units are removed from that team.

If you just join a new team, then your old units stay with your old team irrevocably (sp?).

Truthfully though, it isn't a big deal to me. I don't understand people who move around frequently but I am not really concerned about it.

[pointwood]

I personally would prefer that if you join a team then whatever you crunch stays with the team (like the Distributed.Net stats). Compare it to if/when you give a few dollars to charity - yes that comparison is a bit flawed, but I can't find a better one right now

It all depends on what you think the teams is the most important aspect or not (only in regards to the stats of course).

I personally like to be able to compare the teams, but that is quite difficult with the frequent team jumping. Yes, each team jump only creates havoc for a shorter period, but that argument doesn't work since it's not just one person that has done it a single time - it's several people (for various reasons) at different times, so what you end up with is stats that you really can't rely on.

Overall team comparison stats:
http://dc.lusers.net/compare2.html

This discussion doesn't matter however. It will not be changed - Howard has previously said that he would not change it. I also completely agree that it is far to late to make changes to the stats. It should have been done right when the project started.

I do however, personally, urge people to not jump teams unless it is a permanent jump.

[Auritania]

There is one interesting aspect to the stats with DF. If you want to leave structures with a team, you can simply register a new handle and start over with your same old name. Yes, you do loose your original units but It's just a matter of a little math to figure out what you have done in total. My only wish would be some sort of absolute public identifier such as a unique random number or something that remained with the account no matter what. It would be nice at times to see where someone went when they decide to change names and teams at the same time. That idea was already struck down by the powers that be. Just makes harvesting stats a little more tricky is all.